Columns:

The Right Note: Questions to Ask at the Trolley Forum

by Mark Kelly | March 21, 2013 at 3:00 pm | 1,108 views | 127 Comments

The Right Note is a weekly opinion column by published on Thursdays. The views and opinions expressed in the column are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of ARLnow.com.

Next Wednesday evening, March 27, our County Board will tell us how they plan to move the Columbia Pike streetcar plan forward. The Board is refusing to allow for a full vetting of opposing views, and it remains to be seen if they will take unscripted questions. If you can get the microphone, here are some things you should question:

1) Will there be a dedicated lane for the trolley?

The answer, of course, is no. So, if a trolley breaks down during rush hour it will block traffic and cannot simply be moved onto a side street. Conversely, if a car breaks down in the trolley lane, the trolley cannot move around it.

2) Will buses still run on Columbia Pike?

Yes. The trolley will not replace buses altogether. In fact, if you want to go directly to the Pentagon, a bus will likely be your better choice. And, during rush hour, trolleys will likely be slowed by buses in front of them.

3) Are trolleys safe?

This is an open question. There are reports of these vehicles being knocked 25 feet off its rails by a vehicle the size of a small SUV.

4) Why did the county quickly move to consider a public-private partnership approach?

Most likely to avoid a public vote on a bond. The Board has indicated zero willingness to put this $250 million (a low estimate) project before the voters in any way, shape, or form. Under the public-private partnership model, the Board can allow private entities to put together the financing and avoid a public vote on a bond altogether. In exchange, Arlington would contribute a hefty down payment and sign a long-term contract to pay for the rest.

5) Why did the County Board never debate the merits of using bigger buses that have multiple entry doors and the ability to have curb level entry?

These buses could be done at approximately one-fifth the cost. In fact, if you look at the 2012 study on this very question, the buses would cost $193.2 million less up front, and $2.19 million less per year less for an ongoing annual subsidy. The same study estimates that just four percent more people would ride the trolley versus the bus. If you do a quick estimate, that means each additional rider costs the taxpayers about $175,000 up front, and $2,000 more per year.

There are many other questions that could be asked, from the likelihood of cost overruns, to the impact on existing businesses on the Pike, to playing hide the ball on a recent FOIA request, to bicycle safety, to the impact of Alexandria’s decision to scrap its light rail plans.

Even if the Board does not intend to take public input, those with an interest in the outcome should come to Kenmore Middle School and make their presence known.

Mark Kelly is a former Arlington GOP Chairman and two-time Republican candidate for Arlington County Board.

Extreme

Mark, if the Trolly is the issue upon which you are investing your political future, you’re doomed. The Trolley is both popular and makes sense, except among the small cranky set who hate all large government expenditures, regardless of its virtue. It’s like yelling at the people who supported the Metro system or Dulles Airport.
- Arlington Old Coot
  
  I’m still not convinced about that crazy “metro” system. All those trains, screetching around down there in the dark. Nobody wants to go down there, with all those tunnels, and stairs, and such. And dangerous as all get-out! What if a train breaks down? It just sits there until they can open up the street above it and hoist it out with a crane, probably about a week later.
  If they want public transport, why can’t we just have horse-cars, which were certainly good enough for me, back in the days before I got my Buick Century.
- novasteve
  
  Feel good moments uber alles!
Arlington Resident

vote yes for the trolley
- biker_chick
  
  and your reasons?
  - Kill the trolley
    
    Ridiclously high costs for one.
- damiec
  
  i would love to have had the opportunity to vote “NO” on the trolley. Unfortunately, the county board has not seen fit to offer citizens that opportunity.
  - ARL
    
    You had it in the last election for county board.
    - dan
      
      And Libby won and the trolley supporter lost….is that the point you were trying to make ??
      - South Awwlington
        
        4 against 1. Trolley wins…that’s the point we have successfully made. Now take your toys and go home.
- biker_chick
  
  And why are you in support of the trolley, arlington resident? How would this save money? How would it be economical for the Pike?
  - JR
    
    How was Metro economical for Lyon Village?
http://www.facebook.com/greg.jones.33633344 Greg Jones

So let me see if I have this correct: the Board understands that buses would be cheaper, but chose the more expensive option.

Why?
- squidgod
  
  Because Arlington.
  - JR
    
    Because a cynic is one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. You get what you pay for.
    - ArlingtonWay
      
      For a third of a billion, I would hope so.
- DING DING
  
  McDonald’s is cheap. But people in Arlington regularly choose to eat at more expensive places. Why?
  - JamesE
    
    McDonald’s is usually packed, bro.
- confused
  
  the initial capital cost is lower. There is considerable question about the maintenance costs for articulated buses (Ive seen claims they are high) and they need to be replaced more often than streetcars. They also will not carry the same volumes as street cars, and will not attract as many riders. And according to some, they will not do as much to stimulate development.
- ARL
  
  Because cheaper isn’t always better?
  
  Carts pulled by donkeys would be even cheaper, are they better?
  - Somehow_Sane
    
    No. You need stables, to clean up after the donkeys, etc.
    But you’re free to walk.
- dan
  
  Because Fissette won’t ride a bus.
- Somehow_Sane
  
  @Greg, I agree, but you need the other half of the equation. Buses would be much cheaper AND be equally effective. See the alternatives analysis at piketransit.com.
John Rambo

Let’s continue to mortgage our kid’s future with Pork projects such as a Trolley. For those of you who say our arguments do not carry merit because the trolley is like the Metro, you are wrong. The Metro has dedicated lanes; the trolley does not. Trolleys across the country are notorious for not meeting ridership projections and/or operating over projected costs (yes, even your precious Hampton Roads streetcar has a higher operational cost than planned for); Detroit and Tampa have never met ridership estimates. The one good thing that may come of the sequester is no federal funding for this awful idea; then let us put it up for vote by the residents of Arlington.
- Scott
  
  Will someone think of the children?
- novasteve
  
  The more reliant kids are on the state, the better for dems. Will make them loyal voters for life is they aren’t self reliant.
QTR

No matter how many “Keep Arlington Weird” bumper stickers they sell, Arlington is not and will never be Portland. Trolley in Portland works. Trolley on the Pike does not.
- Pbbt
  
  So says you. And you are …?
  - QTR
    
    Someone who moved here from Portland, and who rode the trolley there all the
    time. How’s that?
    Downtown Portland has space for cars to get around the trolley if there is a problem. Columbia Pike does not, as it’s too narrow. Also, some streets in Portland are completely car-free, allowing public transport (like the trolley) to run uninterrupted. It’s different.
- confused
  
  Cause in portland there is a magic way for streetcars to get around obstacles that does not exist in arlington?
- drax
  
  Tell us why they work in Portland but won’t work on the Pike, QTR. What’s different?
  - PDX
    
    None of the streets where the Portland street car runs are straight-through commuter routes. They are city streets, with parallel streets where you can go if you don’t want to drive with the street car; and while some are in the heart of downtown, others are not, so the streets aren’t as crammed with traffic. Also, in some places, the Portland streetcar does have a dedicated street without cars. Portland is a city, Columbia Pike is not — it is a commuter route, with much of the traffic coming from or going to destinations out in Fairfax. Nothing wrong with that, but it definitely is a different situation from where the Portland streetcars run.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Bahn/799475006 Pat Bahn
      
      much like Ct and Wisconsin Ave which had trolleys for decades.
    - Ballstonian
      
      That is a thoughtful objection (and ditto for QTR’s comment below). I’ve never lived in Portland, but I have visited and ridden the streetcar. My recollection is that operates along the western edge of the downtown area, on streets that are fairly busy but not major arteries like Columbia Pike. The southern end of the route is through the pedestrian mall or plaza of a university campus (where the college kids don’t seem particularly concerned about getting mowed down).
      
      But I think the answer to that objection is that parts of the Pike (e.g., around the Cinema & Drafthouse) are already a pretty walkable neighborhood, somewhat like Portland, and the County would like to make the rest of the Pike more like that. A traffic artery full of cars passing through on their way from DC to Fairfax doesn’t do much good for Arlington. And I suspect that this is also what is behind some of the opposition to the streetcar – people sense that it will make driving tougher if the Pike is less like a freeway. But some of those people realize that it sounds a little selfish to say, “I don’t want some stupid streetcar with 100 people in it getting in the way of my single-passenger SUV!” So they couch it in terms of safety objections, reliability concerns, or affordable housing. They don’t even notice that the multiple theories they endorse are sometimes inconsistent, because they don’t really believe those theories either. Their real objection is one that they don’t actually want to say out loud – they prefer driving, and oppose transit projects that give priority to other modes of transport over their personal cars.
- Fred A
  
  I’d like to see them do a TV show about the weirdness of Arlington. “Arlandria” would be a cool name, but it’s already taken.
Cakes

Q:

Does calling it a “trolley” somehow strengthen your points or does it just make you look small, and petulant.
- Mary-Austin
  
  I think it strengthens his points. It just punctuates how cheesy the thing is.
  - ARL
    
    It’s not cheesy, it’s part of a modern transit system in many cities.
    - tburger
      
      outside of Portland name one.
      - perkinsms
        
        Boston, Philadelphia, Houston, Norfolk, Vienna, Amsterdam, Munich, Budapest, Prague, San Jose, San Diego
      - fromhere
        
        I don’t think any European examples are relevant at all; their histories are just too different (and I’ve ridden on those in Amsterdam, Budapest, DC, and Prague). Columbia Pike is not Portland, Boston, Philadelphia, or even Norfolk, either.
- Jeff
  
  The terms trolley and streetcar are interchangeable, along with tram. Trolley is technically the most correct as it refers to the pulley/wheel/slider that makes contact to the overhead wires that power the vehicle.
fedworker

hlasovat
ano pro vozík
- Hank
  
  So help me God if this message is written in Czech!
  - novasteve
    
    Fisette should announce “Ich bin ein Prager!”
    - Wayne Kubicki
      
      Jsem opravdu velký rozhazovač
      - dan
        
        I’ve heard that one before !!
ArlRes

Good grief. This has to be one of the most beaten to death topics! And so many seem to act as if no city has ever had a streetcar before. Its not a new thing, they run in cities all over the world. Yes without dedicated lanes (that’s why its called a streetcar vs. light rail) and yes with cars, buses, bicycles, etc. sharing the road. I’ve been on them in several European cities (Lisbon, Rome, etc.). I have never seen any problem with them at all. In fact they were extremely convenient. They work better for short distance trips than the subway. And they spur development which in turn produces a larger tax base and more walkable communities. Buses do not do this, as dozens of other posts, articles, debates and studies have shown.
- ARL
  
  “And so many seem to act as if no city has ever had a streetcar before.”
  
  Yes.
  
  Plenty of cities have streetcars that work just fine. It’s not like this is some new thing.
- OX4
  
  I know, I’m so tired of the streetcar discussion. Don’t people realize there’s a million-dollar bus stop out there??
Arlington Chris

Can we stop beating a dead horse? The trolley will get here.

Yes, buses are cheaper. No, they do not work as well as the trolley for a variety of reason, including, yes, the ‘perception’ factor which is very real.

Arlington is trying to bring the Pike up to the same density levels as the successful Metro corridor. Those decisions and investments paid off handsomely for the county, let’s hope the trolley will as well.
- tburger
  
  Here is the question – what is the difference in property taxes between:
  
  1) doing nothing
  
  2) Increased busing
  
  3) Trolley.
  
  10, 15 and 25 years from now?
  
  Note: the trolley is going to cost (as of 2011 250 million). That means between option 1 and 3…the difference in RE property taxes raised needs to by $10 million/year to pay off just the capital costs of Trolley within 25 years. That doesn’t cover the interest or maintenance costs. At $1.00 assessed rate to raise $10 million a year there needs to at corresponding increase of $2 BILLION RE assessments. That is just to cover costs and that means that $10 million will not be used to pay for other items the county would like to build like a billion dollars in school construction.
- Somehow_Sane
  
  “Let’s hope the trolley will as well.”
  Hope? That’s our job as citizens, to hope the County Board gets it right?
ArLater

So let me clarify this is your argument. If a regular bus were to break down because it has wheels and not on a track it can be moved to a side street. But if a car, another object with wheels, breaks down and that breakdown happens to occur on the “trolley” track, then its stuck there, doomed to block the “trolley” for good.

Do you even think about your arguments sometimes?
- Trebonius
  
  Do you even think at all? A broken-down bus can be towed out of traffic; a broken-down car can be towed out of traffic. A bus can move around a broken-down car blocking its lane of traffic; a trolley can’t move off of its tracks and can’t move around the broken down vehicle.
  - ARL
    
    But we don’t know that. We don’t know how these things work. We should, like, really ask instead of just assuming it.
    
    Here are some actual answers from the pro-streetcar group, including an answer to this question:
    
    http://streetcarnow.org/information-and-faqs/operations.aspx
    
    Their answer is that the next streetcar just comes along and pushes it.
    
    Besides, it’s not like a bus can be moved to the side of the Pike, out of the way, if it breaks down. There’s no room. It would have to wait for a special tow truck too.
    - Jeff
      
      What don’t you know, and what’s being assumed? If a streetcar can move off it’s tracks? Really? If they could leave their tracks, it would be called a bus. If something breaks down or blocks the tracks, the streetcar will be at a standstill until it is cleared.
  - ArLater
    
    Why couldnt a street car be towed in the exact same manner as a bus or car? The only difference is the streetcar would be towed along the Pike while a car or bus could be towed on a side street, yet probably would still just be towed on the Pike.
    - trebonius
      
      If the streetcar (sic trolley) could be towed just like a bus on asphalt it wouldn’t need special tracks to operate; so why spend more for it than a bus?
  - South Awwlington
    
    No, but a trolley can be pushed or towed to end of the short 5 mile time and removed from service.
- http://twitter.com/Dezlboy Dezlboy
  
  Don’t forgot about the water mains busting.
Chris Slatt

The Portland Streetcar also operates in mixed traffic just like the
Columbia Pike Streetcar will. When you add together every single service
disruption, no matter what the cause in Portland’s first two years of
service: mechanical problems, power outages, the driver not showing up,
passengers getting sick, police and fire activity – it adds up to less
than 1% of service [http://reconnectingamerica.org/assets/Uploads/bestpractice074.pdf]. It’s a reliable system.

More operational questions answered at: http://streetcarnow.org/information-and-faqs/operations.aspx
Faye Jisette

You lost. Give it up. The streetcar will happen.
- Pike watcher
  
  So the state and federal funding came through?
- Somehow_Sane
  
  Then why have a townhall over a dead issue?
Mary-Austin

Also, what will happen when the water main breaks that happen on a regular basis occur?
It’s not like the trolley can move around like a bus.
Will the trolley just not operate whenever this happens?
- G Clifford Prout
  
  I say they make the repairs via the non-track portion of the roadway, keep the streetcar running and make it the ONLY way to make it down the Pike.
- Jane-Dallas
  
  Oh my goodness, and what if a meteor hits the earth, and, and what if there’s an earthquake in Japan, and and and….
  
  Your ridiculous hypotheticals only further undermine your stance.
  - Mary-Austin
    
    Ridiculous hypotheticals? You obviously don’t travel on Columbia Pike.The road is being torn up on an almost weekly basis between Taylor Street and Buchanan and the conditions are terrible. I’m pretty sure they have better roads in Tegucigalpa.
    - http://twitter.com/Dezlboy Dezlboy
      
      I doubt it…..Per Wiki: Tegucigalpa’s infrastructure has not kept with the population growth.[31] Deficient urban planning,[32] densely condensed urbanization, and poverty[33] are ongoing problems.[34] Heavily congested roadways where current road infrastructure is unable to efficiently handle the over 400 thousand vehicles create havoc on a daily basis.[3
JR

1. Arlington seems to have ample tow trucks who can remove a car from the streetcar lane as quick as they do from a Clarendon parking lot. No other community with streetcars has a problem with streetcars breaking down and snarling traffic This is not a valid objection.

2. Yes. Buses will still run on the Pike. It’s called multi-modal transportation. More choices, more riders, more investment on the Pike. Buses still run on the Orange line don’t they?

3. OMG, do you take Metro? Do you ride buses now? Do you ride a car? Are you aware of the demonstrated risks of riding in any of these vehicles? You know, of course, that cars rank worst in safety, don’t you? You pick one anecdote from a report on the Portland experience that actually says “Overall, the streetcar line has been extremely well-received, and the positive experience of the first 2 years of operation is lending credence to the city’s efforts to expand the line to other areas close to downtown Portland. It has also become a model that many other municipalities, large and small, have come to see in order to gauge possible application in their own communities.”

4. Because not exploring public/private partnerships would be to ignore a potential revenue source? But you act like it’s a bad thing to even explore it?

5. Actually, this is false. The county has debated this issue for more than a decade. It has looked at buses and considered alternatives. All the documents are available on the County’s website.http://sites.arlingtonva.us/streetcar/?doing_wp_cron=1363894474.2246370315551757812500 And a history of public involvement in this issue is also available on StreetcarNow http://streetcarnow.org/information-and-faqs.aspx. Studies show that increased buses do not spark investment the way fixed rail systems do. The streetcar is a key component of the Columbia Pike Masterplan, the county’s efforts to preserve affordable housing, and is strongly supported by businesses and citizens associations on the Pike. It is also a key piece of a regional transportation upgrade, linking Fairfax through Arlington to Alexandria.

Buses would have been cheaper on the Orange Line, too. Opposing transit was a bad move in the 1970s. It is equally shortsighted now. I can only speculate what the real agenda of these johnny-come-lately streetcar opponents really is. It can’t just be about the money. If Arlington — one of the wealthiest communities in the world — can’t afford to invest in its future, who can?
- Jeff
  
  Arlington does not own or contract those tow trucks. The tow trucks tow from privately owned lots in a private contract. The city would need to have a contract with the private tow trucks to do this, and would likely be no faster than a person calling a tow truck after the accident. Also, you’re wrong on the no other community aspect. Check New Orleans.
Ballstonian

This is a really poorly-reasoned set of objections to the streetcar. I’m embarrassed to say I actually voted for this guy because he didn’t have a “(D)” after his name. I am relieved that Libby Garvey has turned out to be a lot better than he probably would have.

Mr. Kelly seems so anxious to prove his claim that a “trolley” is dangerous that he links to document (“Portland Streetcar: A Two-Year Report Card”) without noticing that that report actually refutes his larger points. Yes, the report on the Portland streetcar notes that there were 3 “major” accidents in 2 years of operation, the most serious of which involved a Jeep Cherokee derailing a streetcar and knocking it 25 feet off the tracks. But the report goes on to say (p.345) that there were no serious injuries from that or any of the other accidents, and that the streetcar overall has had an excellent safety record. (Not mentioned in the report but relevant here is the obvious fact that cars collide with buses, too, damaging one or both vehicles. And buses have certainly injured or killed a number of pedestrians in the DC area in recent years. Streetcars are at least predictable – they stay on their tracks, and don’t make unexpected swerves.)

The Portland Streetcar operates in mixed traffic, just like Columbia Pike would be, but the report finds that the streetcar did not cause major delays for auto traffic, nor did auto traffic cause significant delays for the streetcar. The report indicates that ridership significantly exceeded initial projections, and the streetcar has been a great success, so much so that Portland is planning to expand the system.

People who want to actually learn something about how streetcars operate ought to read, or at least skim, the Portland Streetcar report.

That’s not to say that Arlington shouldn’t at least consider the alternative of an improved bus system on the Columbia Pike, and weigh more carefully the relative costs and benefits. I think the Board should have listened to community views much more seriously, and has been acting unusually high-handed in its approach to this project, But the idea that a steetcar is some sort of outmoded historical throwback, or dangerous accident-prone deathtrap, is simply absurd.
- JR
  
  Good points, although this notion that the Board has not listened to the community is bizarre. Where were you when this was being discussed over the past decade in literally hundreds of community meetings, commission meetings, and board meetings? http://streetcarnow.org/information-and-faqs/the-public-process.aspx
  - Ballstonian
    
    I’ve been in Arlington for almost 20 years, and I am aware that the planning has gone on and it didn’t just pop up out of nowhere. But the community involvement does not seem to have been enough, given the enormous outpouring of opposition to the streetcar. I think some of that opposition is misguided, but it is still very real. Yet the Board wants to hold meetings at which dissenting voices are not allowed. Perhaps the earlier planning wasn’t publicized enough, or perhaps people just don’t pay attention until something really gets to close to being realized, but I think the Board needs to respect the fact that a lot of people are ticked off about this. All three candidates in the Board election last fall, including the Democrat, tripped over themselves taking an anti-streetcar position, so they too must have realized that there was some serious discontent out there.
    - JR
      
      Well, the project is actually approved, so the decision point is passed. I think it is to the Board’s credit that they are holding yet another forum to address perceptions and misconceptions about the streetcar.
      - Wayne Kubicki
        
        Not quite “approved” yet – the financing is not in place.
      - http://twitter.com/Dezlboy Dezlboy
        
        Wow…would those opposed to the streetcar please do some research on the ArlCo website to include reading meeting schedules, transcripts, etc etc. There were numerous occasions to voice your opinions and suggestions. So when I hear that the board blindly did such and such, I don’t buy it.
        
        I hope those in opposition to the streetcar don’t view the upcoming meeting to rant and rave and disrupt those who want to move forward on the project.
        
        Some arguments against the streetcar have some merit. Is there any issue that is all good or all bad. Of course not. But, at least to me, reading many comments against the streetcar is like going back in time, over and over again.
      - arlvapete
        
        We did, they were not acknowledged.
      - CC
        
        Incorrect. They were acknowledged, but not accepted. There is a huge difference in listening to the rantings of the minority and being held hostage. This isn’t rule by unanimous consent, it’s by majority. You’re blind to the fact that just because YOU don’t want it means nobody else could possibly want it. This is a great project and will exceed my high expectations.
      - South Awwlington
        
        I would suggest that should federal financing fall through, we will find another way to pay for it.
      - Somehow_Sane
        
        Then why not let skeptics speak?
      - South Awwlington
        
        The Townhall is for information on this settled issue. Should we debate all decisions in perpetuity just to satisfy the losers?
      - Somehow_Sane
        
        They’ve never involved us in the deciding to have the streetcar or not. So why subject people through the tedious financing and public-private partnership deals?
        Do the letters “CYA” come to mind?
    - ArLater
      
      So community involvement wasnt enough because there is still opposition? In what real life scenario are decisions made only after getting 100% support from the community, electorate, etc?
      
      We get it, some people are happy, some are not, happens in every vote. But to say that enough wasnt done because there is still opposition is absurd!
  - Wayne Kubicki
    
    At how many of these meetings were the currently projected costs of the Pike streetcar project known? Or, since this is Arlington, is the cost of this really no object?
    - Mary-Austin
      
      Or was the fact that the County is considering de-regulating daycares to save money meanwhile building million dollar (maybe ready) bus/streetcar stops covered?
      - South Awwlington
        
        Mentioned several times has been the fact the dedicated funding must be used for dedicated projects (transportation in both instances here). Do you refuse to acknowledge that or are you just unable to grasp the concept?
        
        As much as the loss of daycare oversight SUCKS, it has nothing to do with any amount of money spent on transportation projects.
        
        Please stop posting comments like this.
    - Chris Slatt
      
      At a minimum, current cost estimates were presented at these:
      June 6, 2012 – Public Open House meeting (159 attendees)
      June 7, 2012 – Public Open House meeting (109 attendees)
      July 5, 2012 – Arlington County Transportation Commission Public Hearing
      July 24, 2012 – Arlington County Board Public Hearing
      - Pike Neighborhood resident
        
        But the project had already been approved by the county a few years before that.
- Edward
  
  You know, here’s the problem with comparing this streetcar option to Portland. Traffic. Pure and simple. Having been to Portland many times, and used their streetcar, there is a vast difference between what we have planned and what they have today. The first key differentiator is the lack of vehicular traffic; Portland has little traffic compared to our area. It is also not just a track up and down one road like ours is planned to be; it weaves through the City and provides direct access from hotels to the convention center. Every time I was on it, it was filled with two types of people. Younger people who preferred to live on the streets due to the moderate climate (yes, we actually had conversations with them and found there is a large homeless community there that prefers that lifestyle) and those from out of town going from hotel to hotel to convention center. Often, the same younger people would be on the streetcar all during the day if it was too misty outside.
  Also, if the idea of a streetcar is to help develop the area…hmmm, Portland wouldn’t be a good model for that either. It is in the City Center, and fans out, but once you leave the Center, you’re not in too many “vibrant” communities. There are a whole lot of empty buildings in and around the streetcar there.
  In my opinion, comparing the Portland streetcar system to our proposed system as a successful model is comparing apples and oranges.
  - Somehow_Sane
    
    @Edward, thanks for sharing your Portland observations. You raise a good point: What works under one set of circumstances won’t necessarily work in another. Just because your doctor successfully treats your headaches doesn’t mean I’ll pop your pills when I get one.
    Each community’s needs and circumstances are different. Without properly diagnosing them, you wind up with a solution to a non-existant problems while exacerbating the existant ones.
    I think that’s what happened here. Someone (I’m looking at you, Zimm) saw the shiny streetcar and viewed that as the fix-all solution. And questions only further cement his commitment, hence his evangalistic stance.
Chris Slatt

“Alexandria’s decision to scrap its light rail plans”?

Arlnow should at least briefly fact check these.
http://www.alexandrianews.org/2012/06/alexandria-arlington-to-continue-joint-route-1-corridor-streetcar-conversion-project/
Bs

Bullshit questions from a bullshit ‘politician’ are you a politician if you never get elected to anything?
G Clifford Prout

1) Will there be a dedicated lane for the trolley?

The answer, of course, is no. So, if a trolley breaks down during
rush hour it will block traffic and cannot simply be moved onto a side
street. Conversely, if a car breaks down in the trolley lane, the
trolley cannot move around it.

ALL I CAN SAY is, in the 30 years I’ve been here every time a bus has broken down it has never been moved to a side street and has blocked traffic. If it is so simple why don’t they do it more often?
- FrenchyB
  
  And sometimes they even break down in the left lane.
  - G Clifford Prout
    
    Yea. Take that Mark Kelly. Wasn’t moved to a side street so simply.
    - http://twitter.com/Dezlboy Dezlboy
      
      And from your research, how often do you expect a streetcar to break down so it can’t move at all? I bet less often than I-66 is closed due to car accidents. The sky is not falling.
- Fred A
  
  Excellent point – buses are heavy as hell, and it is no easier to tow them out of the way than it is a streetcar.
  Plus most of the buses are operated by WMATA, whereas the streetcar is going to be operated by Arlington (right?). So that has to be at least a 100% improvement in reliability right there – streetcars aren’t going to break down as often as WMATA buses.
  - Chris Slatt
    
    Actually the reason Streetcars don’t break down as often is because they are much simpler mechanically. Buses have to convert some sort of portable fuel into power and then use it, Streetcars just use it.
    - Fred A
      
      Yes, I’m sure that is true, but can’t we take some shots at WMATA too? It’s fun.
    - Somehow_Sane
      
      “Buses have to convert some sort of portable fuel into power and then use it, Streetcars just use it.”
      I admit I wasn’t the best thermodynamics student. Still, I have to ask: What are you talking about?
ARL

You’re not asking questions, you’re making challenges. For instance, in #1, you should ask “if there’s no dedicated lane, what happens when a trolley breaks down?” Perhaps they have a good answer. Maybe other trolley systems have ways to deal with breakdowns that don’t block traffic or maybe breakdowns are really rare.

Yet instead of asking, you go on to assume that it’s a huge problem, because you are not really here to ask question or learn more, just to bash the trolley.
novasteve

When will you people get it? Apparently we “need” a trolley and not busses because .
1. Apparently there isn’t as much development from busses as with street cars. So rents will go up much quicket if we get a streetcar.
2. Whites in arlington are too insecure to be seen on a bus, this we need to spend a lot more so they feel less ashamed to take public transit. Apparently the planet is only worth saving if you don’t have to be embarrased by taking a bus.
- I see white people
  
  The whole whites won’t ride the bus argument is bunk anyway. There’s lots of white people waiting for the bus on Columbia Pike near Bob and Edith’s, every morning.
- http://twitter.com/Dezlboy Dezlboy
  
  novasteve: Why don’t you ride the Rt 50 bus for a week or so. Surely, you aren’t too insecure to do so. You might find your “white people” comment not only to be wrong, but rather childish, and old…..
  - novasteve
    
    Dezl: Isn’t the argument being made for the street car that arlington residents won’t take the bus, but they will take a street car? Now why would that be, and why would they think that?
OX4

Hey Mark…ever hear of this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
SoArl

I lived in San Francisco where light rail runs in dedicated lanes through some city streets. (Google West Portal Avenue, San Francisco). I’m sure there were auto accidents in the rail lane from time to time, but cars can be pushed to the side of the road (or off the road) and it didn’t happen frequently enough to make local residents wish they were riding a bus. I also rode articulated buses in SF and they are not the most comfortable ride, particularly if you get stuck in the middle.
Peter

Mark’s questions are useless. The only one that matters is, what is Plan B, if the state and federal funding doesn’t come through?

I enjoy reading arguments about the streetcar, but IMHO, the streetcar is not about moving people from point A to point B. It’s about redeveloping the Pike. That might change later on, but for now, it’s not about transportation.

It’s fun to play traffic engineer, but as a citizen of this county, I’m more concerned with issues of affordable rents. A streetcar would be fun to ride, but where to? Another frozen yogurt shop? How much will the Drafthouse have to charge for a beer to pay it’s property taxes? Maybe it’ll go the way of Dremo’s. Just things to consider.

One last thing – people hold up the Orange Line as some inevitable ideal. Build it and they will come. Maybe, but it took decades for that redevelopment to actually happen in North Arlington. Wasn’t there once serious talk of putting a Home Depot where the Barnes and Noble in Clarendon is? The Orange Line as we know it only really took off in the last decade, because it was a combination of the Orange Line and the war on terror that caused such explosive growth. Something to think about amidst calls for federal spending cuts.

These are the argument that matters to me, not whether some single occupant vehicle from Fairfax County gets stuck behind the streetcar on its way to work at the Pentagon.
- Pezdrake
  
  Yes it took a long time for the orange line related redevelopment but the solution isn’t to wait even longer. I too have concerns about the increased rents and taxes in part of Arlingtons most affordable neighborhoods. But sacrificing the good for the perfect is bad policy. Rent control and affordable housing should be addressed by the Arlington housing dept. Personally I’d like to see a dedicated trolley lane and take out two traffic lanes. Mass transit should replace vehicle use, not supplement it. But I would guess plenty of people would hate that even more.
  - Peter
    
    Pez, good points, I think I’d prefer to see a dedicated lane as well. And why preserve the Pike as a commuter artery for out of county drivers? Because we’re really nice?
Jane C

I know a lot of people who plan to vote out of office any board member who supports the trolly. Zimmerman, your days are numbered. Jay , you are up next for election. Think twice before you vote for something most Arlingtonians don’t want.
- South Awwlington
  
  “something most Arlingtonians don’t want” – care to share those statistics, honey?
PDX

Some of the objections to the street car are sort of silly, but also it’s silly for the County Board to approve a deal that slaps a tax on local business to help pay for this boondoggle, and then pretend that a public-private partnership will bring money into the equation. The money it brings in is the public part; the private end makes an upfront investment as long as the deal is structured so they can pull a handsome profit out. The public-private partnership people are trying to sell us on the idea that there is a free lunch, and there isn’t. Private investment isn’t like Tooth Fairy.
The points about traffic backing up behind the street car are probably right, although it’s stupid to say a car hit a streetcar and knocked it off its tracks, as if cars never hit buses, or buses never hit cars, etc.
The comparisons to Portland are off-base. Columbia Pike is a through commuter route, with virtually zero pedestrian traffic. Portland is an old-fashioned real city, and the streetcar there runs through the downtown business district, with people making short trips. There are no alternatives for cars stuck behind a streetcar if there is a problem, whereas in Portland, there are parallel streets you could use if you needed to. And although Portland is a city and the trolley runs downtown, very few of the streets there have the amount of traffic that Columbia Pike has, and those that do it’s only for a few blocks. Columbia Pike is a commuter route its entire length, with very few people who will hop on the streetcar at one point, ride a few blocks and hop off. They’ll get on at the Pentagon and ride out to Baileys, or wherever the street car ends, at which point they will have to get on a bus, or find a way to where they parked their cars. It just isn’t the same, so saying it works in Portland has no bearing on whether it will work on Columbia Pike. How do I know this? My wife is from Portland and we go there a few times every year. If the streetcar went out Hawthorne, we would use it a lot more, which is another point: if you ain’t going where the streetcar goes, it does you no good at all, whereas buses such as the No. 16 on Columbia Pike, can and do have flexible routes.
Mc

Very low marks, Mark, for making a misleading suggestion that the Board needs to raise $250 million through bonds. The $250 million figure includes Federal funds and includes Fairfax’s portion. Arlington’s share is about a third of that.
- Barry Bonds
  
  So the federal funds and state funds have come through? Or we’re still just banking on them?
Looking forward to it

I cannot wait to meet some of you anti-streetcar buffoons at the public meeting.
- http://twitter.com/Dezlboy Dezlboy
  
  OMG!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Bahn/799475006 Pat Bahn

the most important improvement on the Street Car would be to have it turn off columbia pike at the Pentagon South Parking lot, and run around the perimeter road into the Bus Corral at Pentagon. That would provide interconnection to 40-50 bus routes and a nice little connection to Metro. It would also provide better access for the Pentagon workforce. If the Pentagon managers are afraid of Terrorism, they can have a Pentagon cop board at the last pike station and clear the approach via visual inspection.
CommAveGreenline

The pro-trolley folks seem to be purposing ignoring some significant problems for a trolley on this corridor. I support mass transit but this corridor is not right for a trolley, a subway probably but not a street level trolley. Boston’s Green Line is the best example of how a trolley can both work extremely well, and not so well, in a dense urban environment. Boston’s green line is underground for much of its path, a subway for all intents and purposes. Outside the urban core of boston (after fenway park) it goes above ground and breaks into three branches. Two of the branches are quite rapid as they are on dedicated rail corridors and are not molested by street traffic. The third, which runs along commonwealth avenue, is much slower as it is constrained by traffic lights (although it has its own dedicated lane, unlike this project). Go all the way and build a 3 billion dollar subway–central arlington deserves it–but don’t half ass it with trolley’s that will jam up columbia pike even more and lurch from stoplight to stoplight. It is simply money badly spent.
- Somehow_Sane
  
  I can’t agree more. How well do you think a trolley would work in place of the Orange or Blue Lines?
Arlpete

How many persons on this list travel Columbia Pike regularly? It’s just too small for a trolley. And it’s painfully expensive. And it wasn’t brought for a referendum. How many persons on this list would actually ride the trolley? The articulated bus system makes much better sense fiscally and in terms of the road.
PikePikePike

When was the last time you saw a car broken down on Columbia Pike forcing traffic to go around it?
geebee

Here’s a question the author didn’t ask: Why do conservatives automatically oppose public transportation improvements?
Somehow_Sane

If you have doubts about the streetcar, it is your responsibility to speak out now. Waiting until it’s a 9-digit debacle and saying, “Well, there were some things about it that really bothered me” does no one any good.
Also, the criticism of Kelly’s views can be just as easily directed at the County Board. If they had been upfront with skeptics and hashed out their concerns, the same questions wouldn’t linger and some wouldn’t be wondering Zimm’s ulterior motives.
We all want the best for our community. Let’s let it all out at Kenmore and let the chips fall where they may. No matter where you stand on the streetcar, only presenting one side won’t bring us together. (Of course, I’m assuming that’s the point. If not, carry on.)
MCP

What an audacious move on the part of the Arlington County Board. Just as we are feeling the effects of one political entity’s failure to serve and glaring oversight to the needs of constituents, it seems OBTUSE to consider this plan, which–at best–is merely a novelty spend for the only group of people who might actually have some money burning a hole in their pockets right now. Of course, this is exacerbated by the fact that, not only is this entirely unnecessary, it will surely just multiply the current frustrations already being voiced by both residents and visitors that could have been largely ameliorated through the use of these funds. Instead, we can all just sit back and watch as these presumptuous bastards magnify the exact behavior the public finds intolerable.

Superintendent to Present Boundary Change Recommendation Controversial Ugandan Play Comes to Artisphere

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