Del. Englin Blasts Abortion Bill on MSNBC

Columns

by ARLnow.com February 16, 2012 at 10:44 am 5,301 118 Comments

The goings-on within the Virginia General Assembly generally do not make national news, but that changed this week after legislators passed a Republican-sponsored bill requiring women seeking an abortion to receive an ultrasound.

Incensed by what he saw as unnecessary government intrusion into the private lives of women, Del. David Englin (D) issued a scathing statement about the bill.

“This bill will require many women in Virginia to undergo vaginal penetration with an ultrasound probe against their consent in order to exercise their constitutional right to an abortion, even for nonsurgical, noninvasive, pharmaceutical abortions,” Englin said. “This kind of government intrusion shocks the conscience and demonstrates the disturbing lengths Republican legislators will go to prevent women from controlling their own reproductive destiny.”

The statement apparently attracted the attention of cable news bookers. Englin, who represents parts of Arlington and Alexandria, was invited on MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow Show last night to reiterate his point for a national audience.

Before the interview, Maddow argued that should the bill be signed as-is by Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell (R), it could hurt his chances of becoming a Republican vice presidential candidate in 2012.

Steamboat Willie

I think it stinks, but elections have consequences and this is the manifestation of the modern (sic) GOP.

Anti-abortion R’s don’t like that women are having abortions, so they have instituted an unnecessary harassment to make it harder for women to do what they are legally entitled to do.

Regardless the sincerity of their motivation behind the bill, the effect of the legislation is similar to that of a poll tax or literacy test imposed to make it more difficult for “undesirables” to vote.
this shall

Really?!? The governor wants to stick something up a woman’s vagina? Sounds like the ultimate in an illegal search! I thought the right BELIEVED in the Constitution. This proves, no matter what they say, they don’t. The 4th Amendment does not apply in Virginia.
D’oh

I like this Englin guy.
- 11th Street Resident
  
  I like him too and he just got my vote.
- dk
  
  He is terrific in this interview. Calm, well-spoken, and appearing to be sincerely interested in compromise. I’d say we should send him up to Congress, but given the current state of affairs, we need him more in right here in Ol Virginny.
  
  He doesn’t just have my vote, he will soon have some of my money as well.
novasteve

Don’t you need an ultrasound anyways to get an abortion to find the location of the fetus? if so all of this outrage is a little misplaced, isn’t it?
- brif
  
  Again, you obviously don’t know how abortions are performed.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Medical
- nom de guerre
  
  I believe the fetus can be usually found in the uterus. Maybe the members of the General Assembly that voted for this bill should have a cystoscopy to see if they might have a fetus in their bladder.
  - dk
    
    These guys couldn’t find the constitution if it were stuck up their you-know-where.
  - drax
    
    Learn something about female anatomy, steve. (wink)
- Josh S
  
  Confirmed as having head stuck in sand (or some other place dark).
  
  Posting same comment on successive days despite being explained how he was wrong the first time around…..
  - nom de guerre
    
    The classic definition of insanity-Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
- tess
  
  If you had actually read the previous responses to that ridiculous claim, you wouldn’t have to ask. And no, this outrage isn’t misplaced at all. Do you even know what a pharmaceutical abortion is? Apparently not.
- zerosteps
  
  Clearly do not know your anatomy and physiology.
novasteve

Funny how liberals don’t think 4 year old clumps of cells can make decisions of what they can eat.

http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/national/students-lunch-taken-away-for-not-being-nutritious-enough
- D’oh
  
  They can’t, because they’re 4-years-old. What reasonable parent would let their 4-year-old pick their own meals?
  - jackson
    
    Bingo. Seriously? Healthy lunches are a political issue?
    - novasteve
      
      It’s really sad that you dont’ think the government telling people what they can eat is a political issue. You are so used to being controlled and told what to do that it doesn’t even phase you. So sad.
      - Southeast Jerome
        
        WAIT WAIT – people just realized how insane us Republicans are.
        
        Quick- Lets change the subject to something totally unrelated before they realize we’re tearing down the country in the name of reglious conservatism!
      - drax
        
        Hey steve – I’ll agree that the government should take 4-year-old’s lunches if you agree to not require women to be raped before they have an abortion. Deal?
  - novasteve
    
    They didn’t, the kid came in with the lunch her grandmother gave her and the liberal control freaks at school took it away and made the kid eat school food. The decision I was referring to was the child eating the meal the child was given by her family.
    - Zoning Victim
      
      That’s terrible and has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.
      - novasteve
        
        It’s about government control in people’s lives. Liberals, so long as they get abortion, they have no problem completely controlling every aspect of our lives.
        
        What % of a woman’s life involves abortion? And yet you have no problem with the 99.9997% of everyone else’s lives to be completely controlled by the government?
        
        I cannot even choose what kind of lightbulb I want, I need government approved toilet bowls, I can’t smoke in a bar, you can’t get transfats in a lot of places, etc. Where is your outrage there? So long as your precious abortion is okay, you don’t care about the things that actually impact everyone else, sinc eyou think otherwise government knows whats best and that can be forced on everything while you throw tantrums over a sonogram requirement which provides factual information?
      - Zoning Victim
        
        Haha, I’m no liberal and my outrage with all government intrusion of our lives is firmly intact, which is why I hate this bill. You’re guilty of the same thing you complain about the liberals doing; condoning government intrusion where it serves your ideology.
      - Economic Realist
        
        Do you know what externalties are? They are the cost that one person imposes on another when there is market failure. Pollution is the most obvious example.
        
        Government is effective when it internalizes the cost of an externality, sometimes by taxing it, sometimes by regualting it, and sometimes by banning it. Every single one of your examples of government “intrusion” is a response to an externality–air polution from electrial generation, wasted water, second-hand smoke, diabetes and heart disease that result in higher health care and Medicare cost for the rest of us.
        
        I am tired of absorbing the costs of externalities that others impose on me. If you were a true libertarian or true conservative that believed in markets and in efforts to facilitate them when they fail, you would be, too. But these days most “conservatives” and “libertarians” are ignorant, resentful, and selfish. Which are you?
      - drax
        
        So if taking a kid’s lunch is wrong, and banning smoking is wrong, and mandating lightbulb types is wrong – is abortion wrong, steve?
        
        Make up your mind.
- Max
  
  Where does it say “liberals” took away that child’s lunch?
  - novasteve
    
    Right, because we know school systems are bastions of conservatism :rolleyes:
    - Josh S
      
      *facepalm*
    - drax
      
      Oh, so every employee of every school system in America is a liberal. Even in friggin’ rural North Carolina. That makes perfect sense, steve.
    - Noo
      
      I think most of us, liberals or conservatives, can agree that this story is ridiculous. However, it had nothing to do with the federal government, or Mrs. Obama, who, by the way, is no fan of chicken nuggets. No, it is the work of some idiot in the great state of North Carolina who has no clue about nutrition and way overstepped his/her bounds.
- drax
  
  Funny how you decide that every action you don’t like was done by a “liberal” and that all other liberals would do exactly the same thing.
  - Maria
    
    He’s so tolerant of everyone who doesn’t share his viewpoint, isn’t he? What a role model for the rest of us intolerant, whiny, nanny-stater libby-lovers.
  - Quoth the Raven
    
    To be fair, there are tons of comments on here about how “all Republicans” think this, or “All conservatives” think that.
    - novasteve
      
      Yeah, apparently I have to be a christian to think abortion as a form of birth control is wrong. So I’m one of them thar white redneck christians talking about jesus because I think abortion as a form of birth control is wrong, yet I guess the me being Jewish part must not be very convenient eh? Okay for libbies to stereotype and make generalizations.
    - Maria
      
      I’m not sure because I’m not him, but I don’t think that’s the point of drax’s comment.
      - drax
        
        You are correct, but I don’t think explaining it to steve will help much.
bemused bystander

Englin is often a hotdog publicity seeker but on this one he’s right.
BMXbandit

Get Lawsuits ready!!!!
Fillmore

McDonnell campaigned as a fiscal conservative who was willing to put aside his more extreme views on social issues. Now that he has a majority in the legislature, he’s shown his true colors.

This is not going to go over well for the GOP in Virginia this November.
- Zoning Victim
  
  No he hasn’t; at least not unless he actually signs the bill. I hope he has enough sense to veto this if it makes it to his desk.
  - Southeast Jerome
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHA. enough sense.
    
    HAHAHA
    - novasteve
      
      Remember when you liberals got BOOTED from the Virginia legislature? LOL. Hate to break it to you, but you guys don’t really even dominate all of Nova. if you hate VA politics so much, go back to where you came from.
      - Max
        
        Then be quiet whenever the county board does something you don’t like and leave if you don’t like it. They keep getting re-elected year after year.
      - Flying Spaghetti Monster
        
        “if you hate VA politics so much, go back to where you came from”?
        
        what if I am from VA? does that mean I have to like the right wing’s overreach? I’m pretty sure there were probably Germans who hated Hitler too. but you never hear about them.
      - Hope
        
        nova steve…when did you say you were moving again? hehe
  - tess
    
    Really? MCDonnell have enough sense to veto it? LOL. Not a chance.
    - Zoning Victim
      
      Well, his servers are so overloaded right now that the 10 attempts I’ve made to email him have all failed. Let’s see if he has any political aspirations that go further than 2014.
      - drax
        
        Try an envelope and a stamp.
      - Zoning Victim
        
        It’s more fun to crash their servers, but I will mail him a letter if I can’t get through.
      - Courthouse Res
        
        Call too.
      - drax
        
        Crashing their servers just stops the flow of messages, as does sending electronic messages of any kind. Bury them under paper, they can’t ignore that.
nunya

keep your dogma outta my vagina
- awh hells bells
  
  The makings of a great bumper sticker.
  - DSS10
    
    You could put the sticker on your Karma!
Really?

By all means, whatever we can do to prevent the mother from seeing the fetus that is about to be obliterated, let’s do. Keep ’em ignorant of the consequence of abortion. After all, its just a blob of tissue right?
Funny how those who say its just blob of tissue complain about seeing an actual fetus..
- drax
  
  That could backfire:
  
  http://werdoomed.newsvine.com/_news/2012/02/06/10334605-if-i-wanted-an-abortion-an-ultrasound-would-make-it-easier-for-methis-is-why
  - novasteve
    
    And great. It’s about providing information. I think anyone who is willing to kill their offspring because it’s inconvenient to them isn’t going to be dissuaded from having an abortion from seeing a sonogram. Howhever the opposition that liberals have to this is just proof that they are desperate to preserve their “clump of cells” myth, and they are scared to death.
    - FourEyes
      
      Actually no, people are scared of this because it’s an incredibly invasive procedure that doesn’t provide more information than a transducer sonogram. It’s violating the woman more than is necessary, with no conceivable medical reasoning.
    - Cate
      
      I could see a sonogram and not bat an eyelash about continuing with an abortion. I do not ever want children. I do not want to be a parent. EVER. But don’t tell me that I have to undergo an unnecessary medical procedure against my will.
      
      What are you so afraid of if we choose not to have an unwanted child? Sounds more like you’re scared to death of not being able to tell women what to do with their bodies.
      
      And skip the “wahhh but it’s the BABY TOO!” argument. I don’t care. I don’t feel abortion is morally wrong in the least. What is morally wrong is anybody else telling me what to do with my body, and therefore my life. What is also morally wrong is forcing women to bring (more) unwanted children into the world.
      
      But, according to you, that’s only a *tiny* part of government intrusion so it’s acceptable. Forcing someone to have a child has a hell of a lot more an effect on someone’s life than, say, mandating calorie counts on menus (as an example of government intrusion you’re probably up in arms about).
- D’oh
  
  The difference is that this is a FORCED, invasive medical procedure.
  
  You’re going to be hard-pressed to find many people that think abortion is a more desirable form of birth control than contraceptives. However, it is a legally protected right and must be available when contraception fails or is otherwise neglected (which will be a whole ‘nother problem if the insanity that is the fight against birth control gets anywhere).
- Pablo
  
  Let’s require people applying for guns in Virginia to see pictures from Norris Hall at Virginia Tech!
  
  And thanks to the Republicans, soon I’ll be able to buy 20 or 30 every day even when there’s no gun show.
  - D’oh
    
    Love it! Give ’em the Clockwork Orange treatment, but substitute Beethoven for Toby Keith!
- Hope
  
  Really? Should a woman who was raped be forced to see the fetus? Everyone that has an abortion isn’t ignorant. By all means, keep making assumptions about others. That is what God asked us to do, right?
novasteve

How is this any more intrusive than the abortion is?
- brif
  
  you obviously didn’t read the post and don’t know how abortions are performed.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Medical
  - novasteve
    
    So are you saying nothing is inserted into a vagina when an abortion is performed?
    - brif
      
      Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem. I’m not saying anything, i’m simply providing a link to a description of medical abortion procedures. Your questions in this post demonstrate an ignorance of abortion procedures.
      - John Fontain
        
        brif, in the last sentence i think you can leave off the words “of abortion procedures.”
- Justice
  
  Didn’t eat your wheaties today? Think about the concept of succession.
- KJS
  
  Well for one thing, having an abortion is a woman’s choice. This is an unneccesary medical procedure that a woman cannot say no to. The Virginia legislature, or at least the Republican members, apparently believe women are children and should not be able to make up their own minds about their own bodies.
  - novasteve
    
    How is this making them not allowe dto make up their mind? If anything it gives them facts to make an INFORMED DECISION. it is LIBERALS like you who want to deny them all the information before making a decision.
    
    Don’t forget the fetus that DIES as the result of the womans’s choice isn’t her body.
    - dk
      
      You still haven’t explained what it is you think a woman doesn’t know. Anyone wishing to see what an embryo/fetus looks like can google it.
      - novasteve
        
        Any other examples you can provide me where you don’t think knowing all facts is agood thing before making a medical decision?
      - Maria
        
        Steve, you continue to make this argument. All we are asking is for you to *please* explain what facts you think a woman will learn from a ultrasound that she *doesn’t already know.* That’s all.
      - novasteve
        
        WHAT it is her “choice” is.
      - Maria
        
        I said what will she learn that she “doesn’t already know.” If you truly believe a woman doesn’t know what she’s chosen to do when she’s about to have an abortion, then you must live even more entrenched in a fantasy world than I thought.
      - Max
        
        A lot of information is left out when performing medical procedures. When examining an elderly patient’s carotid arteries, you risk dislodging a clot sending it to the brain. Dental procedures are incredibly risky as they provide a very easy route for bacteria to enter the blood stream and make it to the heart where they can cause a number of possible problems including death. When’s the last time a dentist mentioned this to you?
      - novasteve
        
        So why is it okay for a restaurant to have a disclaimer that raw or undercooked meats can make you sick? Where is the outrage over than when you order sushi?
      - drax
        
        You aren’t required to shove sushi into a body cavity, steve.
      - Maria
        
        You aren’t??
  - Really?
    
    KJS, You miss the point, its not only for themselves that they are making the decision to obilterate.
    Hint: Look deeper and within.
South Awwwlington

I predict that Richmond will be playing hell with all moderates and liberals in Northern Virginia. They see us as troublemakers thanks to our County Board.
U Roy

Right on Englin! Correct sir!
Peter Rousselot

Great job by Delegate Englin exposing the hypocrisy of so-called “small government” Republicans like Bob McDonnell.
- novasteve
  
  Let me knwo when Mcdonnell creates the Virginia Department of Vaginal Ultrasounds.
D’oh

Are pharmacists in VA allowed to refuse to fill prescriptions like birth control for “moral” reasons? If so, maybe doctors can refuse to do this for moral reasons.
- novasteve
  
  Something tells me a doctor who would perform the abortion but would refuse to do an ultrasound for being “immoral” would be a laughing stock since an ultrasound doesn’t kill a fetus but the abortion does.
TooEasy

Just pass a bill requiring that a same sex couple offer to adopt the unwanted fetus.
Try The Tacos

So who will have to pay for this unnecessary procedure? The commonwealth or the woman/couple seeking the abortion? Either way, it’s a waste of money and resources. Aside from the whole other side of this which is that it would be degrading and humiliating. How would these lawmakers feel if we required they get a colonoscopy before they take office, just so we can show them where their head is before they take an oath to work for ALL of their constituents?
Zoning Victim

It worked for SOPA and PIPA, so here is the contact form for the Governor:

http://www.governor.virginia.gov/AboutTheGovernor/contactGovernor.cfm

Let’s get to work on contacts asking him to veto the legislation and see if we can stop this. The public crashed the servers of the members of Congress emailing about their discontent for SOPA/PIPA and those pieces of legislation were dead the next day. Hopefully, we can do it again.
- Zoning Victim
  
  Ha, the server is already having problems submitting the email.
- KLM
  
  The server is quite slow right now, but my e-mail did go through eventually. Keep those e-mails coming and let the Governor know where you stand on this ridiculous piece of legislation.
- Try The Tacos
  
  email sent at 4:35. It’s still slow – but it went through.
esmith69

Man, “no-go steve” is on a roll lately! I truly never thought someone could possibly link a school lunch issue to abortions, but as usual he manages to make it happen.

Kudos to “no-go steve” for helping spread his polarizing rhetoric. Fox News would be so PROUD of you!
- jackson
  
  He’s just worried that abortions might mean less kids to smoke in front of in the park when he’s celebrating HIS freedom to do so, government intrusion by putting up a sign asking me to please not to be damned!
TheLiberator

1. The mandate is about punishing women for having sex. plain and simple.

2. The right wingers want Women who have sex and ‘get caught’ by getting pregnant should be punished ! for being so immoral!

3.VA right wingers think Parenthood is a fitting and proper sentence for the ‘crime’ of having sex and will make the woman a slave to the society, ensuring her continued submission.
- spaghetti
  
  I completely agree with you. Here is why it is about punishing female sexual activity:
  
  1) VA republicans voted to reverse the mandatory HPV vaccine before 6th grade because government shouldn’t mandate vaccines. – really I suspect they don’t want girls to feel free to have sex without the worry of cancer causing HPV infection.
  
  2)Then they turn around and mandate this trans-vaginal ultrasound – extremely hypocritical.
  
  3) Finally, the VA republicans voiced their support for keeping contraception legal, but when an amendment was submitted to protect contraception from becoming illegal after the personhood amendment passes, they rejected it outright.
  
  What do all of these have in common? All of them punish women and restrict their sexual activity. Makes it really hard for me to believe that they actually care about protecting “innocent life:”
  - novasteve
    
    1) VA republicans voted to reverse the mandatory HPV vaccine before 6th grade because government shouldn’t mandate vaccines. – really I suspect they don’t want girls to feel free to have sex without the worry of cancer causing HPV infection.
    
    —
    
    They don’t know the slightest thing about the health consequences of taking a vaccine.
    
    Vaccines that are mandated are about things that are easily transmitted from student to student in the classroom. Unless they have orgies in class, students are not going to get HPV from being in schools. Hence the requirement unncessary. If you want your kids getting the HPV vaccine, you are free to give it to them.
    - Max
      
      Have you ever been to school? Once you get to 12th grade they do get to be non-stop orgies.
    - Zoning Victim
      
      All three of you sound equally ridiculous. Republicans don’t want women to be able to have sex without some form of punishment for it? Uh, yeah, because Republican politicians hate getting laid and totally want all of their mistresses to get knocked up.
      
      And yeah, the government shouldn’t force anybody to get vaccinated because Polio, Measles, Small Pox, Mumps, Diphtheria, Hepatitis; well those are all really just fake diseases that never killed anybody, right?
      - TheLiberator
        
        Are you daft man ? This is not about SEX, it is about CONTROL. Right wingers want to control women and sexuality is one good way to achieve it.
      - Zoning Victim
        
        Yeah, you’re paraniod adn I’m the one who is daft.
      - Zoning Victim
        
        Oops, didn’t mean to click send on that mess. What I meant to say was:
        
        Okay, so you’re a paranoid conspiracy theorist, and I’m the one who is daft; got it.
Quoth the Raven

Arl Now is turning into an “abortion-commenting only” site. Shouldn’t we go back to talking about slip lanes and flip flops?
- drax
  
  We should abort slip lanes and flip flops.
  
  Done.
novasteve

Curious, but where do all you “keep your laws off my body!” liberals go when liberals mandate vaccinations?
- Max
  
  Someone once told me the following:
  
  Vaccines that are mandated are about things that are easily transmitted from student to student in the classroom.
  - novasteve
    
    I was referring to the HPV vaccine. But still for any vaccine, what about your “keep your laws off my body”???
    
    They don’t have orgies in class, so there is no need for a mandated HPV vaccine.
- dk
  
  Virginia allows exemptions from vaccine requirements for schools and daycare. And other outs are available, too. If you opt out of the public school system, your children can remain unvaccinated. Adults generally aren’t required to get vaccines either, unless they need to because of employer requirements.
- D’oh
  
  Alright Steve… When scientifically challenged parents prevent their kids from getting the measles vaccine, those children become carriers who can then infect infants, who have significant mortality rates for measles. Allowing people to forego medically proven vaccinations endangers the lives of actual born children. Let’s see you justify that.
  - novasteve
    
    MY POINT is where are you “keep your laws off my body” people over vaccinations, or telling people what they can eat?
- Zoning Victim
  
  The doctor’s office.
nunya

so now some santorum ass hat says to use an aspirin to prevent pregnancies.

what’s next, pop rocks? [apple flavor]
- Maria
  
  Squeezing the aspirin between your knees keeps your legs closed… was a joke. Get it?
TK

Prochoice or prolife – doesn’t matter. We CANNOT let this blatant violation of women’s rights happen! I am ashamed to be a Virginia resident.
Cherrydaler

Love the CEA logo behind McDonnell
not your bro

Englin certainly speaks for me. Very well done!

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