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Pike Listserv Erupts Over Rap Music at Cinema Drafthouse

by ARLnow.com January 17, 2011 at 10:37 am 5,795 247 Comments

A Tupac song hasn’t caused this much controversy since the ’90s.

An email listserv for residents of Arlington’s 22204 zip code has erupted with a full-fledged neighbor-versus-neighbor war of words over some profane rap music that was accidentally played at the Arlington Cinema & Drafthouse on Columbia Pike.

The controversy started when a local resident, Carole, emailed the listserv to report an incident that she found quite upsetting. She had gone to the Old Arlington Grill, the Cinema Drafthouse’s restaurant/lounge, to grab a bite to eat with a friend. Suddenly, the “raunchy” sounds of “cussing rap” music came through on the speakers.

Carole was having none of it.

“I politely asked the bartender to please change the music as I found it offensive,” she wrote. “His response? Don’t worry, the song is almost over. Next song – more of the same.”

That’s when things got a bit heated. Carole went to the manager and asked to have the last round of drinks taken off the bill, as she wanted to leave the establishment. The manager agreed to do it, she said, but the bartender continued to give her problems. She finally left exasperated and looking for justice.

“Please advise when license is up for renewal. I will object. STRONGLY,” she wrote. “Have spent too many years volunteering in this community on civic association, Arlington Civic Federation, ACDC… to have this kind of representation in our neighborhood.”

“Ok, so I am a dem, tell me all about our civil rights and freedome of speech. But I too have a right to not be offended when I visit a local establishment I have otherwise supported for the 23 years I have lived here,” she concluded. “What is next, porn tapes on the TV at the Grill?”

At that point, emails in support of or against Carole’s diatribe started flying. Cinema Drafthouse owner Greg Godbout eventually responded with a lengthy, 2,200 word apology/explanation/renunciation/call to action.

“Carole – I’m sorry you were personally offended by the music played at the grill. And while I agree the music selection was inappropriate – sometimes disappointing things happen,” Godbout wrote. “For myself I try to not let myself get carried away when they do. I try to keep a reasonable perspective of things –even if they upset me. However, when people make personal threats directly at my personal livelihood and my extended families well being – I take them very seriously.”

“I recommend to all the others on this list, before you jump to alarmist conclusions and seek out to destroy neighborhood icons – you all take a breath and check it out for yourself,” he added.

Godbout threatened to post surveillance video of the incident, which he said showed Carole losing her cool and acting in a disruptive manner. After a phone call with Carole, however, Godbout rescinded his threat in a subsequent email.

See the controversy unfold in emails, after the jump.

Flickr pool photo by BrianMKA

Here’s the original email:

This evening after visiting one of my favorite Pike places, Twisted Vines, my friend and I decided to go hear some music at PJ Brennans, we are all about supporting the Pike. When we learned the band was delayed we decided to check out the Grill at the Cinema and Drafthouse. It was 9:50 and had not yet had the opportunity to visit the grill. There were not many people in the bar and the bartender told us he was trying to shut down, we could have a drink and maybe some food and then he would shut down as they normally were only open for the pre-show crowds; ok, so far so good. The tv was showing a movie, no sound, and there was music playing in the background. First time in the Grill, like to support the Pike businesses. Happy to be there.

Others dribble in. Bartender decides to change music from Bruce Springsteen/top 40 to other music. Still ok fine. Then changes to raunchy rap. MFing this, MFing that, fU this and that. I was shocked. This in my neighborhood? is this the new Pike so many worked on to build? My friend and I had just ordered another drink. I knew for sure I was not interested in listening to cussing rap. I politely asked the bartender to please change the music as I found it offensive. His response? Don’t worry, the song is almost over. Next song – more of the same.

Went to get the manager to ask for our last drinks to be taken off the bill as we wanted to leave as we found the music offensive. Manager did go into bar and changed music, then on third raunchy song, and said he would take the charge off for the drinks we had just ordered but also needed to take the drinks away. I advised, no problem as we had not intentions of staying as we were offended by the music. No aplogy.

Bartender then sullenly gives us revised check, but no money back for the drinks already paid for. My friend has to ask for the money back he had already paid for the last round of drink. Bartenders response? “I’m not stupid. I did go to school. I know I have not given you your money back” (no explanation as to why money had not been given along with revised check.)

Left bar, left no tip. Regular customers at Twisted Vines, love Sonia and Claudia. amazing service. Had previously left there, $20 tip on $95 tax included bill. My friend, extremely generous tipper. Always. Except tonight at the Grill. Left no tip at the Grill. Tip for service right? Least that is what I learned in my many years of bartending and waitressing going through school and working three jobs when I first moved down here.

No intention of ever going back to the Grill. Ever. EVER.

Please advise when license is up for renewal. I will object. STRONGLY. Have spent too many years volunteering in this community on civic association, Arlington Civic Federation, ACDC, ESL, foster parenting, building school partnerships while at DISA, working with CPRO, to have this kind of representation in our neighborhood. Can you tell I am peeved? you betcha. No apology from manager, no indication whatsoever that anything was amiss. Ok, so maybe I am getting old, but please help me out here, is raunchy offensive rap music what we are looking for on our Pike? This is not the community I have worked hard to build over the past 3 years I have lived here. And my guess is most of you would feel the same way. Can we get assurance that we can visit our neighborhood venues without having to be exposed to vile language? Ok, so I am a dem, tell me all about our civil rights and freedome of speech. But I too have a right to not be offended when I visit a local establishment I have otherwise supported for the 23 years I have lived here. And in those 23 years I have never ever ever heard a single resident of this community use even one of the words in that music,. What is next, porn tapes on the TV at the Grill?

Carole [REDACTED]
AHCA

Carole followed up her original complaint with another email.

I love the cinema, have been going there for 23 years and love what they have done in providing various venues. Maybe because people pay to hear comics there who might have blue material it is felt by staff that patrons of the bar like that as well. And I apologize to the list serve for what I am sure will appear to some as a rant but it is one thing to choose to go into a venue where one is expecting that kind of language but totally another to be a patron wanting a drink and snack in your local neighborhood spot and having that forced on you, especially after having asked for the music to please be changed and it was the bartender who had selected the music. I have no doubt that others in the Grill were offended as well. I found the whole experience pretty stunning as when we first walked in we were pretty much told by the bartender that he was closing at 10 and we could have one drink and maybe some food and then he would close as they typically were only open preshow. Maybe he was irritated because then other customers began coming in so he was not able to close as he had planned, thought the website says they are open until 1 a.m.

I have no doubt the owners are good people and good citizens and have worked to build the community in the Pike. I hope they will look into this incident and provide assurances that neighbors will be able to enjoy their Grill without the offensive and profane music. I cannot see how attracting a crowd that enjoys listening to that type of profane music can be of benefit to our community.

Carole

The owner of the Cinema Drafthouse, Greg Godbout, eventually chimed in with a lengthy response to the complaint.

Carole,

I was forwarded your comments by my wife who helps run the Arlington Drafthouse. She received your comments from a fan of the Drafthouse.

Carole – I’m sorry you were personally offended by the music played at the grill as it was not done intentionally. That is not the kind of music that is approved at the Grill. But I cannot accept, without defending, your accusations and more importantly your very aggressive and personally threatening desire to use your political connections and civic association connections to put the Arlington Drafthouse out of business.

At this point I would like to interject some facts…

(1) The music played at the Grill is strictly from one of Comcast Cable’s Music channels or an already approved ITunes collection. The particular channel that night at the Grill was the 90’s Throwback. But later in the evening the bartenders typically switch to the approved ITunes collection which is more upbeat. That evening after 9:30PM – the bartender’s phone was mistakenly set to play his whole collection of songs including personal songs. By mistake one of his Tupac Shaker songs was played.

(2) The bartender did not “change the song” – his mix inadvertently played the song he wasn’t intending. Unfortunately during this period, the bartender had gone back in to the kitchen to help with a kitchen order so was not attentive to the song selection being played when it came on. For his part, and allowing even the possibility of such a song to be played, he has been suspended for one week.

(3) The Manager on duty, who handled the situation when Carole approached him, is our lead customer service manager and he apologized to Carole profusely that night. He explained that that kind of music is not approved and it must have been a mistake. He apologizes again even while Carole was screaming at him and loudly repeating the full usage of the “F-word” and “N-word” (words used in the song). One area that we can agree on is how uncomfortable those words make people as our manager was very uncomfortable with Carole’s full usage of those words in an irate manner. He immediately followed Carole into the Grill and turned the music down. He corrected the situation by turning the music off, removing the drinks from the tab and later reprimanded the bartender for being careless with his playlist.

(4) The bartender was never asked by Carole to stop playing the music; however this was probably due to the fact that he had stepped back into the Kitchen when the song mistakenly came on. As for the bartender returning the cash slowly, he was totally flustered by Carole continuing yelling at him to just give them cash – but he was not as slow as Carole implied. Carole kept repeating loudly, “This is not my neighborhood! This is not my Neighborhood!” The bartender was trying to make sure his final deposits which include, coupons, cash and credit slips matched up. Reconciling an already batched financials (of which the bartender is responsible for) is not as simple as just returning cash. With that being said they received their refund after only 3 minutes of getting the manager. We know this because the video camera’s back up the bartender and managers story of the events.

(5) The Drafthouse maintains video cameras covering all areas of the Grill and Arlington Drafthouse. As owners we use these video cameras to help figure out what has happened when there are differing stories. The video camera clearly shows Carole not asking the bartender to turn off the music. The video camera clearly shows Carole’s arms raised and swinging. The video camera also shows that from the time the song was turned off to the time they received their cash refund was 3 minutes. You do not have to take my word on this as we will be releasing the video for all to view. I think it is fair for others to interpret the video for themselves.

(6) Responses from the other patrons at the Grill that night were very uncomfortable at the scene created by Carole. All who witnessed brought up to the bartender their shock at Carole’s actions. In the video you can see other patrons recoil in response to Carole’s yelling in the Grill. We welcome the other patrons to come forward with their prospective.

(7) The Grill basically has three purposes; (1) It has a large kitchen that has allowed us to improve food quality in the Drafthouse, (2) it acts as a lounge for patrons coming and going from shows inside the Drafthouse and (3) It runs it’s own food special events and comedy events featuring up and coming local comics. While the Grill is acting as a lounge only the approved music channels or approved music is to be played. While the Grill is hosting comedy, the content is up the individual artist/comedian and can be offensive to some. Couple that with the entertainment in the Cinema and Drafthouse and we are basically an entertainment arts venue that features everything from family friendly entertainment to very offensive material.

(8) Music played in a restaurant is protected by Free Speech – just as any other form of entertainment we provide. Restaurants are private properties. Just entering the private establishment, whether you pay a fee or not, is acceptance of that private establishment’s entertainment. Of course this does not mean restaurants can play everything. For example we aren’t allowed to play “porn” nor would we want to. While I don’t approve of the mistaken song selection that was played that night. WE STILL MAINTAIN EVERY RIGHT TO PLAY IT. I take this point very seriously. I do not look favorably upon any bullying forms of censorship – especially by politically connected and civic leaders looking to mandate their tastes.

(9) The bartender working that night is one of our best, most eager and well liked staff members (by both customers and staff). However when flustered anyone can hesitate. He is a young ex-Marine from the mid-west with a work ethic that is exemplary. However, he should have handled that situation much better (not even played it incorrectly in the first place). However, it is extremely rare that he would be purposely rude to a customer. (Note: As you’ll read below in my response, I offer you a chance to meet with me and him in a public community meeting to hear his side of the story).

(10) The Drafthouse has a great record with VA ABC and the Arlington Police. We have had very few negative events. We have a minimal rate of incidents when compared to other establishments. Even John [REDACTED]– who unfortunately offered his support to Carole during this discussion – has written me personally to congratulate me on how well we do in this area. In fact the manager taking your drinks away after crediting them is ABC Law. He also did it because we also have a policy to not serve people that appear to be out of control. I am not saying you were intoxicated, but your level of anger exhibited in the grill that night was very concerning to staff and other patrons. Your desire to target our ABC license to put us out of business is nothing more than using political connections to unduly apply government pressure. Our actions that night were directly in line with ABC policy and I’m proud of our Manager for handling himself so well.

(11) The Drafthouse under our management has been one of the most supportive pro-Columbia Pike neighbors. As new restaurants come in and seek out promotional help we often promote them to our 30K+ email list and 10K+ Facebook page. When famous national comedians are in town performing at the Drafthouse, we encourage them to go to P. Brennans after the show and eat at other Columbia Pike restaurants to help spread the wealth. We are, more than most businesses I know, an extremely generous and giving neighbor to the retail restaurant community.

(12) Even though this incident was a mistake – The Grill is not the only entity to have played offensive material on the Pike. P. Brennans frequently features live Irish singers that have used offensive language. The Arlington Cinema & Drafthouse features movies with curse words and nudity. The Grill sponsors two up and coming comedian events per week ($5 on Thursday and Free on Saturday) that can be interpreted to be more “offensive” then Tupac. Those two Comedy events are the most popular events at the Grill. Nearly every lounge/restaurant on the pike offers some sort of entertainment (open mics, karoke, DJs, or Comcast Cable Music) where at a minimum the occasional curse word can be heard. If you insist that we must be shut down then they ALL must be shut down. Of course, at other times, we offer family friendly entertainment at the Drafthouse and a lounge atmosphere at the Grill where we feature typically non-offensive background music. I would not allow our cust
omers’ who enjoy the more offensive content to dictate my family friendly programming just as I would not allow easily offended customers to dictate our late evening programming. I look at sales and customer demand for that.

Carole – I’m sorry you were personally offended by the music played at the grill. And while I agree the music selection was inappropriate – sometimes disappointing things happen. For myself I try to not let myself get carried away when they do. I try to keep a reasonable perspective of things – even if they upset me. However, when people make personal threats directly at my personal livelihood and my extended families well being – I take them very seriously.

A reasonable response for your unfortunate bad experience would be to choose to not come to the Drafthouse – which is your choice. Our challenge as owners is to entertain at the right balance so more choose to come than stay away. The bartender’s mistaken choice of music that night unfortunately chased a customer a way. Believe me that is punishment enough for us. However, Carole, you would choose to not only rally the entire neighborhood to boycott us – but to also shut us down.

We will never be able to please everyone with every selection of entertainment mistakenly programmed or not. Customers with free choice to come and go seems to be a fair arrangement to me.
On occasion, we have had people walk out on live comedy content or movie content due to the individuals being personally offended or it not being a match in entertainment taste. Recorded music in our lounge is no different. However, Carole, you are the first to seek the closing of a popular business in response to you feeling personally offended. You also have the political connections to cause us great harm even though your complaint is unfounded. This makes us tremendously nervous and we will be seeking statements from other Democratic Party leaders in Arlington as to their position.

Your desire to close the Drafthouse down due to this content, I find to actually be the most offensive item during this entire discussion. It is particularly personally offensive and threatening to me – because my family and I have sacrificed everything to keep the Drafthouse alive and vibrant… during very difficult times. Your desire to incite the neighborhood against us without first seeking the owners out (especially considering I believe we have met before) I find to be a disturbing vengeful act and not based on any open communication or understanding. Your vengeful ambitions are misguided and reflect more poorly on you then an innocent unattended mistake of music programming does on us.

Additionally – Inferring that an unintended Tupac song will lead to “porn tapes on the TV at the Grill” is altogether ridiculous, inciting, desperate and not based in reality. There is no reason to FEAR – this will not lead to increased gangs or porn on Columbia Pike.

If you would like to continue this conversation, I would gladly discuss this with you in-person at any community group meeting – please call me directly at [REDACTED] to set this up. Because you choose a public forum I think it should continue in a public forum. I am very busy but also very approachable. I’ll even bring the bartender and manager in question – so everyone can see for themselves and hear personally from the people involved. We love this neighborhood as my wife & I, and my cousin all live within walking distance to the Pike.

I recommend to all the others on this list, before you jump to alarmist conclusions and seek out to destroy neighborhood icons – you all take a breath and check it out for yourself. We will be posting this letter along with communication from the list serve on a website so everyone has access to the discussion that has taken place, including responses in support of Carole. We will also post the video so others can interpret it for themselves. We will promote this to our email list to garner support to defend our Free Speech rights.
Additionally– this has inspired us to create an Arlington Free Speech organization to defend the entertainment interests of Free Speech advocates in Arlington.

Greg Godbout
Penrose

Other local residents also weighed in.

You know, I would have left as well.

That said, I find your over-the-top threat of opposing venue licenses absurd. Did the bar serve minors? Create a public nuisance? Last I looked, playing music with foul language is not a capital offense. And I certainly don’t want to see our neighborhood become one where folks think they ‘have a right not be offended when I visit a local establishment’. Where exactly is this ‘right not to be offended’ set down in law? Who decides offensive? One man’s offense is another’s entertainment. By all means, complain to the manager, tell your neighbors about your experience, shout it from the rooftops. But kindly don’t appoint yourself as moral arbiter for the Pike and threaten to bring the heavy hand of government down on a small business that is causing no disturbance. If enough folks don’t like the establishment, they will either (a) change the music and get a more polite bartender or (b) go out of business for lack of customers. Either option solves the problem.

Meanwhile, you can do what most of us do when we find something not to our liking. Leave.

Just my 2 cents.

Adam [REDACTED]
S Quincy St

So you would except a porno theatre or a strip joint on Columbia Pike? If anyone feels a business is offensive and/or a nuisance they have every right to complain to the appropriate people and challenge liquor or any other type of license. To infer otherwise is unAmerican and PC run amok.

John [REDACTED]
CHCA

John, you sound like the extremists that have driven our political system into the ground. Really strip club, porn shop, cinema draft house bar, I don’t see the connection. In this case the business itself is not offensive, the experience was bad.

The experience as described is not grounds for contesting a liquor license. To do so simply wastes time and resources.

All the best,
Sean [REDACTED]

John

I can only conclude you are being deliberately obtuse. Nowhere in my comments have I even addressed strip joints or porno clubs. They’re not germane to the issue. We’re talking about a bar that played top 40 rap music. Nowhere in my comments did I say that we should be ‘good little boys and keep quiet’. In fact (to bore those on this list serve who actually read what people write), I said ‘complain to the manager, tell your neighbors about your experience, shout it from the rooftops.’

The point of the comment (as it’s lost on you) is that the common-sense response to a business who is rude to you but is violating no laws is to complain to the management and tell others about your poor experience. Business thrive from word of mouth; if enough people agree that the customer service is poor, it will close.

Why on earth you feel the need to involve the Arlington government (who sticks their nose into far to many things already) is beyond me.

Adam [REDACTED]
Douglas Park

Godbout responded to the other emails, as well.

John,

Adam has been spot on correct in his postings.

Your quote about how to respond to Top 40 Rap is just amazing! You stated, “[Sure] we cannot patronize them BUT that does not mean they (reference to the Drafthouse) will go away. We also need to oppose liquor licenses, dance hall permits, and zoning requests.”

A few days ago I asked you directly in my last posting to explain exactly what occurred that night at the Drafthouse that would warrant a complaint to the liquor control board and/or the government. I got nothing in response. Then finally tonight I find you still justifying going after “liquor licenses, dance hall permits, and zoning requests” one song… WOW!

Nothing even remotely illegal occurred that night. Nothing in violation of VA ABC Law occurred that night. Nothing within the jurisdiction of the Health Department. Nothing with even noise ordinance, zoning, etc. Nothing even heard by your own ears I might add. Nothing even remotely in the jurisdiction of VA State or Arlington County was in play that night – so what exactly is your justification for wanting to report the Drafthouse?

Please justify your complaint. Don’t argue that you can do somthing, instead argue why you would do something? What did the Drafthouse do that night to deserve any reporting to any agency at all? Because if your answer is “play a song that you don’t approve of”, I wonder if you realize how ridiculous that sounds. It will make great comic fodder for our 30K email list as I assure them that John [REDACTED] does indeed live in Columbia Heights neighborhood of Arlington, VA and not Bomont, Texas (the fictional town in Footloose where they banned dancing and rock music).

If you want to contact me directly. [REDACTED] (Cell). [email protected]

Greg Godbout
Penrose & Arlington Cinema & Drafthouse Owner

First, I want thank all the neighborhood emails and calls for support. My family and I appreciate it.

In my last post, I promised to release this thread and video to the general public and to continue this debate in a public meeting of Carole’s choice. In my private discussion with Carole I agreed not to continue in a public forum. While we did not agree on everything, we were able to reach a general consensus. In nearly all cases it is always better to have differing parties resolve things amongst themselves. I found Carole to be sincere and a good person – as I believe many of you do as well. I want to make it clear that I or the Drafthouse has no continuing ill feelings towards Carole.

The rest of this posting is for those posts that in my opinion thoughtlessly piled on and/or concerned me the most.

What remains unresolved for me is some in this neighborhood’s willingness to glibly release everyone’s first amendment rights to free speech. The dusting of a little fear and suddenly “porn”, “bouncers murdering people”, and “roving gangs” are pervasive on the Pike. We all have to be better than that. Then the conversation turns into a rallying call and advice on how to attack a local business. That line of thinking and action is far more reckless and damaging to a community than a small 40+ seat venue that played Tupac once.

It is this careless piling on that is going to make me continue to vigorously defend free speech rights in our neighborhood with the full array of assets at my disposal. Never in my life have I seen the importance an activism in defense of arts and the Drafthouse as clearly as I do now. In addition I will extend these same defenses to other Pike businesses who like me are working so hard to make the pike a more vibrant place.

John [REDACTED]– based on your posting you stated that it is your opinion, “the playing of obscene or objectionable music IS grounds for consideration when renewal of liquor licenses”. The short answer is that it is not, but if it was… who would you appoint as the board to determine “objectionable music”. I suggest a group of 16 year olds – I’m sure they would find your music to be at least “objectionable”.

John [REDACTED] Your “strip joint” comment was just an example, but an extreme example when compared to one Tupac song being played. Why not argue the issue on its merits instead of trying to incite more extreme examples. More seriously, your quote “if a business does not offer good public service don’t go back complain to the management the board of health and the state liquor board or anyone else.” Seems to imply that if you don’t like the offerings of a specific business you should report them to any board whether they relate to the specific problem or not. I’ll assume I’m misinterpreting that – but I would like clarification. I hope that is not the proper interpretation because I see that as an underhanded act and frankly a wasteful act of tax payer resources. I’m not sure the Health department should spend its resources on loud noise complaints. Also, I would like to point out the fees for the Health Department and VA ABC are mostly paid by the businesses they regulate – at least that is what I was told when the fees skyrocket this year. In the past I have found you to be blunt but at least direct. You have contacted me a few times. I would hope in the future you would strongly advise others to speak first to the business at hand first before regulatory bodies.

Jerry [REDACTED] – The Drafthouse pays it’s own rent, taxes, licenses, utilities, etc. – thus making it a private establishment. Until Arlington County covers all my expenses including rent and real estate taxes we are a private entity. However we do allow “the public” entrance and thus are subject to a few but not all rules that apply to truly public areas.

Also – Your statement below is entirely incorrect…
“You pay to get into the theater. You read the reviews and you get what you pay for. Movies are rated and are subjected to a board of censors. A public eating/drinking place is a horse of a different color.”

All Movies are not subjected to a board of censors. The Drafthouse plays many unrated local films, specialty films and adventure sports films that do not have a rating. The reason for this is, national movie theaters wanted a rating system so the customer can determine the content (a good system). Basically, the movie industry set up the system. As a movie producer you have to subject your film to an independent rating system in order to do a national release at participating theaters. However, should you choose to independently release your film you actually don’t have to – but not doing so greatly reduces your ability to get played in a majority of theaters. Also a private eating/drinking place (that is open to the public) is not subject to different free speech laws. And free versus paid entry doesn’t make a difference either. The free speech clause of the 1st amendment thankfully provides widespread protection. There are some exceptions in regard to liquor licenses
in VA – like live full nudity and porn (to name two).

John [REDACTED], John [REDACTED] and Jerry [REDACTED] – I found your comments to be most concerning in regard to free speech and to the continuing success of entertainment on Columbia Pike. While I got the feeling you were supportive of the idea of shutting us down – I absolutely want to give you a chance to explain any misinterpretations I may have. Please take the time to contact me at [email protected] –[REDACTED] (or via this discussion). I do not want to jump to any conclusions – but as I said, I plan to be more engaged and active in matters of free speech.

Finally, I just want to say to everyone that business owners on the Pike or general managers of national chains on the Pike are people too. We have homes, mortgages, rent, bills, stress, hopes and dreams. In most cases we have a personal guarantee the loans and/or leases to operate the business. When you glibly trash or directly attack our businesses you are directly attacking us. It is no less scary or insulting as if someone did it to us individually. I think you’ll find that when directly contacted – owners and general managers are very approachable – they are major stakeholders in our community. In the future I’d appreciate it if you please think carefully and critically about your responses about both individuals and businesses alike.

Future businesses are looking at these postings as well to gage the business friendliness of the community. Your comments on these neighborhood listserves can directly affect the likelihood of more Pike friendly businesses coming to fill the vacant store fronts. We are all in this together – let’s work to consensus.

Thanks,

Greg Godbout
Penrose

  • Citizen

    Wow, Carol. Self-righteous much? If you don’t like the music or food or atmosphere of an establishment, then leave. They don’t need to have their license pulled because you didn’t like a few songs.

    • FedUp

      +5

      • Entitled

        I worked as a bartender years ago. saw many people come and go from a bar. The music was different on different days as different dj’s or tapes were used and changed often. Never saw anyone complain about the music. The bar played country, rock, hip hop, etc and no one ever complained about it. Hip hop fans accepted other music until theirs was played, rock fans accepted other music until theirs was played. It was acceptance of others. It wasn’t play what I want or I’m going to be a nuisance. If you don’t like the music leave the bar. If you don’t like the tv channel change it, if you don’t like the radio station find another one. No question shes a democrat as admitted. Must have learned her behavior from Tipper Gore. Seriously though, it’s hard to believe not liking music would make someone feel entitled to ask for the rescission of someone’s liquor license. Hey, how about if I don’t like the color of your skin I should be able to force you to move. Same concept, think about it Carol. Now crawl under a rock.

    • Sunny617

      I concur. Talk about overreaction. You don’t revoke a license because you don’t like their music. Lame!

    • Stanley

      Well that all depends. It depends on how a commercial establishment advertises itself. If the establishment advertises itself as family friends – and there are times when the Cinema and Draft and other establishments advertise themselves as family friends – then they need to come through with that. Particularly where there is alcohol involved, where an establishment is going to be performing adult content, they are required to provide notice of such entertainment. To advertise one type of service, but provide a different – is fraud and is a violation of the conditions of a liquor license.

      Business can choose what type of service to offer – but then they must offer that type of service and not a type that is inconsistent with their representations.

  • The bartender shoulda slapped dat ho.

    Fo shizzle mah nizzle

    • Jim

      And now, a word from the President!
      Damn it feels good to be a gangsta
      Gettin voted into the White House
      Everything lookin good to the people of the world
      But the Mafia family is my boss
      So every now and then I owe a favor gettin’ down
      like lettin’ a big drug shipment through
      And send ’em to the poor community
      So we can bust you know who
      So voters of the world keep supportin’ me
      And I promise to take you very far
      Other leaders better not upset me
      Or I’ll send a million troops to die at war
      To all you Republicans, that helped me win
      I sincerely like to thank you
      Cuz now I got the world swingin’ from my nuts
      And damn it feels good to be a gangsta

      • cj

        This is rude, crude and obnoxious, also irrelevant. And by the way, why don’t you post your real full name?

        • Truthi

          Those are lyrics from a gangsta rap song, exactly what rightly angered Carole (except that song was filthy).

        • G

          Why don’t you?

    • Amused

      lol! What he said.

  • Crabhands

    Reads like Greg was reasonable and respectful.

    • Truthi

      Threatening a private citizen because she complained. Not reasonable, reprehensible. Whats next a video on ARLNOW of someone complaining because their McDonalds order was wrong?

      • Maria

        What did he “threaten” her with? Showing the security video of the incident which she may have exaggerated? Come on. It’s not like he threatened to, you know, shut down her business because he didn’t like her attitude.

        • Truthi

          Yup last I checked threatening people was poor form. I guess Greg didn’t learn that in kindergarten

          • G

            I think Maria’s point was that it’s not a threat. There’s no ill will or promise of negative effects. It’s just releasing a video. The security video, by definition, is just factual – neutral. It’s only a threat if she was lying and the video shows her doing something wrong.

  • KArlington

    Carole appears to be the species we have too many of in Arlington – thinks the world revolves around her and her preferences and turns a microbe (come on, one ill-chosen or accidentally-played song does not a strip joint make) into a nuclear meltdown. I’m chuckling that the incident was caught on tape to prove her self-righteous accusations to be overblown.

    But knowing our “you people are too stupid to know better” County Board, this will be a lingering headache for some well-meaning business owners who made an honest mistake. Once. And attempted to make up for it with great restraint, considering the demeanor of the complainant.

    • AllenB

      I’ve lived in Arlington for 12 years now and have rarely run into a “Carol”

      • KArlington

        Lucky you! Or maybe you’re more forgiving than I am. I feel like I see evidence of it everywhere…grocery store, traffic lights, ARLNow…

  • ctbeachbm

    Carole REALLY needs to get a life!

    • AllenB

      I think Carol needs to get more than a life.

      • Maria

        +1

    • Kate

      +1

  • MrS

    I’m sorry, but what kind of person gets upset over rap music these days, especially at a bar?

    • Just Me

      I don’t like RAP music, after the second song I would have asked for a change in music and if it didn’t change I would have left and a tip with the bill. I may want to go back so no need to make an ass of myself

      • Truthi

        Why would you have bothered to leave a tip? Rewardign negative behavior only leads to more negative behavior.

  • Zoning Victim

    Unfortunately, Arlington seems to be full of this breed. Freedom of speech until I don’t like it; then I’ll do everything I can to disrupt your business/life/whatever until I feel that I’ve gotten my retribution.

    No Carol, you absolutely no not have a right not to be offended. Nowhere in the Constitutions of either the United States of America or the Commonwealth of Virginia is your right not to be offended protected. In fact, the public at large are protected from having their speech infringed upon on the basis that it offends certain people. That’s something that many too people just do not seem to understand. And frankly, I don’t care what volunteering you do; it seems like you only do it to so you can to pat yourself on the back and gain clout that you can use to harass business and individuals that don’t agree with your moralistic point of view.

    • Just Me

      No you are wrong. She does have the right to be offended and act like an ass but not to expect everyone to bow down to her.

      • Zoning Victim

        I agree with you and think that if you re-read my post you’ll find that’s exactly what I was trying to say. I guess my wording could have used some work.

    • If this particular subspecies had a chance they would be in the National Archives modifying the First Amendment to have a special clause… “Unless it offends someone and doesn’t come from a “protected” group, then it can and should be silenced using all tools available.”

    • mehoo

      I generally agree with you, but you do realize that you’re saying I could put a widescreen TV in a window on Columbia Pike and play porn movies showing sex with animals, right? Most people who speak in absolutist terms like this also have their limits, though I don’t know, maybe you don’t.

      • Zoning Victim

        At the risk of being rude, you have a bad habit of taking every policy discussion to the extreme. Public displays visible (or audible for that matter) outside your establishment are not the same thing and are covered under public decency/broadcast laws. This is a private establishment and they have a right to play whatever music they want as long as it isn’t infringing on anyone else’s rights, and as I stated, nobody has a right to be in any establishment they want and force them to change the music just because they’re offended by the content of the songs. Personally, I’d have told her that I’m sorry she doesn’t appreciate the atmosphere of the club and wished her luck in finding another establishment that suits her style better. That’s mostly because I like rap music (some of it anyway) and think that people who are offended by the “F” word (or any other single word) are kind of silly. Talk about group think; long, long ago, “society” decided (actually it was probably a King that decided for society) that he didn’t like a certain set of words and for whatever reason there is still a subset of people who think these words are “bad.” There is no real reason why these words are bad; there is no anatomy of a bad word, there are plenty of other words that convey the same meaning in most if not all cases that are considered perfectly acceptable and the only real reason that anybody thinks they’re bad words is simply because they have always been told that they are bad and God doesn’t like them. Yet, everyone from the lowest specimens of human being to CEO’s, politicians and Presidents (but I repeat myself) use said “bad language” at times. I don’t get it.

        Back to your original point; it is, however, akin to the bartender putting a porno on a TV at the bar that cannot be seen by people outside the bar, and if they don’t mind most of their regular patrons leaving and attracting the type of clientele that would sit in a bar and watch a porno, then they do have that right as far as I’m concerned (assuming it doesn’t violate some other law, which I believe it would in Arlington as much as I disagree with the law). They certainly wouldn’t be the first bar in the metropolitan area to do so. If people don’t want to see it, they can just go somewhere else.

        • Maria

          Okay, I have to ask… what bar in the metropolitan area has shown porn on its TVs?

          • Zoning Victim

            I don’t do the bar scene much anymore. but a former friend of mine ran a DC gay bar, the name of which I don’t remember, and they showed gay porn on all of their monitors, according to him. Tabu, a members only club in DC and Baltimore (their website says they have clubs in PA and VA, too) actually allows people to have sex in their suites and according to an interview I saw with the owner, you can walk around the bar naked, too. It’s a swinger’s club with private membership, though, and not beholden to the same rules as regular bars.

            You do realize that DC allows full nude bars, right? If so, it shouldn’t be a shock that there are bars that play pornos there, too.

          • Truthi

            Crystal City restaurant in Arlington

          • Maria

            First of all, you don’t have to be snarky… you’re referring to *one* gay bar that you know of, and as a straight female, I don’t exactly frequent those. Sorry if I didn’t know that that one shows gay porn. You also are apparently referring to strip clubs and private clubs, and I don’t frequent those either, nor would I classify those as a standard sampling of the DC metro bar scene. Further, I’d hardly equate the fact that strip clubs exist with other bars showing porn on their TVs. So yeah, I am actually surprised that that happens.

          • Zoning Victim

            Maria, I wasn’t trying to be “snarky.” I’m sorry if it came out that way; it certainly wasn’t my intent. You certainly haven’t said anything to me that would warrant any kind of a snide comment. You could have just moved here and not known or not having ever been in one may have assumed that live nudity was banned like it is in many cities (and the state of Virginia if you are going to get a liquor license). I guess I wouldn’t have expected you to be surprised if you did know since live nudity is illegal in a lot of places where porn shops are not, but everybody’s experiences and expectations are different.

            Your point of not knowing because you don’t go to places like that illustrates the point I was trying to make in my original response to mehoo. If a place is that type of establishment, people who don’t like that kind of thing will not go there; just like people who hate rap don’t have to go to places that play it. I don’t go to places like that, either, but I support people’s right to be able to go to places like that if that’s they want to do.

        • mehoo

          ZV:

          Here’s my point: YOU are the one who made an absolutist statement:

          “you absolutely no not have a right not to be offended.”

          If so, that would mean that anyone who complains about being offended by, for instance, public porn out on the street would have no right to complain either.

          So either there are limits, or there aren’t.

          If you meant that nobody has a right to be offended in a place where they can easily leave, such as a bar, rather than out in public, that’s fine – just say so.

  • What is not showing here, is how me and a few other people actually DEFENDED the Drafthouse after Carole’s email and prior to Greg’s reply. I told her that if you don’t like something, leave, tell your friends, and never go back, but don’t involve the county on something that only applies to her personal taste. (And for whatever is worth, I cannot stand rap, but it’s like going to the karaoke across the street from the Drafthouse and complaining someone chose to sing a rap song!)

    • Clarendome

      I think the article did have a few email excerpts from people expressing your (very reasonable) view.

    • John

      If you don’t like music in a bar, you can leave, it really is that simple. No one was making her stay there, I think this lady would be more suited frequenting chain restaurants like a TGI Fridays in Ashburn.

      • jan

        agree

    • Joy

      Having read the entire flurry of emails (still going on, I may say), and added a few of my own, I agree with Carla. Someone who doesn’t read to the bottom of this article will think Carole’s behavior was unobjectionable and The Grill totally at fault. Indicating that Greg “threatened” to post the video on the web, rather than (as is the case) that he offered to post it to corroborate his initial points, also seems to present a rather biased view.

      That being said, the article also didn’t mention that in due course Carole and The Grill owners did talk, resolved their dispute, and agreed that posting the video was not needed. Carole apologized to the list, and the debate even stopped for a day or two – but then resumed when a well-known neighborhood gadfly jumped back in. It’s still going on, despite a few earnest pleas to put it to rest. The 22204 list hasn’t been this entertaining in years! 😉

      • I know! As much as I like it to be over, I can’t help but read each and every email. It really is entertaining!

      • Bill

        > but then resumed when a well-known neighborhood gadfly jumped back in.

        This is false. AFTER Greg accepted Carole’s apology, he then sent out a later email addressing 3 or 4 people he viewed as defenders of Carole. This gentleman was one of there 3 or 4, and was responding to Greg’s email. Greg was the one who jumped back in after he and Carole had reached agreement.

        • Lou

          If only you guys had a place where you could discuss this type of stuff among yourselves.

          • Bill

            That was where it was being discussed, but apparently it is being discussed here, now, too.

  • Bunny

    I have no doubt the owners are good people and good citizens and have worked to build the community in the Pike. I hope they will look into this incident and provide assurances that neighbors will be able to enjoy their Grill without the offensive and profane music. I cannot see how attracting a crowd that enjoys listening to that type of profane music can be of benefit to our community.

    Oh yes, everyone who enjoys that type of music is a terrible person! I really want to shove her head through a wall. -.-

    • Arlingtonian

      You know I was just listening to some Tupac in my car the other day? And here I thought I was a taxpaying law-abiding member of society.

  • AllenB

    While I think Carol’s behavior is disgusting, I’m not sure why some people think Arlington has more of this type of person than other places. I haven’t seen much behavior like hers here, and I’ve lived here 12 years, but I’m sure anywhere you go there are a good number of Carols.

    • Truthi

      If Carole and yes that is the proper spelling was soo wrong why is the bar tender suspended?

      • Maria

        Carole, is this you?

        The bartender was suspended because he played the wrong music, of which the owner has clearly stated he does not approve. Carole was not wrong for disliking the music. She was wrong in that her reaction to the situation was wrong. One does not generally threaten to try to close down a business because of one negative experience that didn’t actually violate any laws/codes/whatever.

        • Truthi

          Nope not Carole.

          The bar tender was suspended because he was wrong and started this whole mess. If he had been cordial agreed to turn off the filthy music that would have been the end of it.

  • Set the controls

    Ugh. Carole’s world view is so paternalistic and gives liberals a bad name (FTR I’m progressive and hate rap), as if she were the lordly benefactor and the whole community, its people, its schools, its businesses are one big charity case which should be starstruck by her generosity, and owes her something. I know the type so intimately. Her next email will be about church, I’ll bet you a round of drinks at the Drafthouse.

  • RyanC

    “He apologizes again even while Carole was screaming at him and loudly repeating the full usage of the “F-word” and “N-word” (words used in the song). One area that we can agree on is how uncomfortable those words make people as our manager was very uncomfortable with Carole’s full usage of those words in an irate manner.”

    It really sounds to me like the woman is racist.

    • Greg Godbout (One of the Owners of the Drafthouse)

      RyanC – Any curse words Carole said were repeating the words in the song. While I appreciate the support greatly – it is just a little out of context. I strongly don’t believe Carole to be a racist. However, I do agree that what is at play here and came out in subsequent emails on the list serve is the sterotyping that comes with music based censorship. Very much the music being targeted on the communications were young and ethnic based. I think any music based censorship is a very dangerous slipperly slope.

    • Arlingtonian

      Either way it’s definitely interesting to me that someone can be so offended by particular words but then repeat them back no problem, and in a louder tone of voice than the music no less.

  • el fat kid

    A couple things here… people have bad days, weeks, months, etc. It doesn’t seem like carol(e) is a bad person so much as she had a bad response to this situation. Let it go, get her to calm down, don’t publicly embarrass her further, etc. Seems like the Drafthouse owner gets it and wants to move forward.

    One thing though, i’m not sure if they’ve ‘moved on’ or what but some of the theater staff were pretty awful for a long time. Haven’t had a problem there in a couple years and the bartenders at the grill have always been incredibly friendly. But i could easily see some of the old staff lacking the social skills to diffuse this situation and escalate it more.

    bickering over drinks and couple bucks seems petty, but it’s kind of ridic that the bartender didn’t just concede and let the situation die, regardless of carol’s behavior. Anyone who has worked in the service industry has given free drinks to someone they are pissed at, who doesn’t deserve it, who should just ‘shut up and leave.’ but that’s the way you keep the world moving and limit exposure to people who are not acting rationally.

    In the words of the of one of the worst civil rights activists, ever. “Why can’t we all just get along”

    • el fat kid

      second sentence should be – carol(e) ISN’T a bad person.

    • Arlwhenever

      This is not isolated behavior. Sadly this is not the first time she targeted a local businessman. Carole was successful a year or two back in driving a local businessman away from the neighborhood, in the Spirit of postings here, his name was Howard [Redacted].

      • Kevin

        Details?

      • FedUp

        Do tell!

        • Truthi

          I’ll give you details. Howard was a home improvement contractor who never completed his projects. He has been banned from several neighborhood list serves.

          • mehoo

            If you are Carole, you’re not hiding it well.

      • el fat kid

        ??? curious which other businesses have been subjected to this kinda stunt?

        i’m definitely not siding with carol(e)’s actions here. she appears to be way out of line and it’s unfortunate that she’s done this before.

        i think the owner is handling this pretty well, though i’d avoid blowing it up more and simply diffuse it. Appears he’s trying to do both, which is a common and natural response. just remember, some people enjoy getting angry, but most of them also liked being calmed down.

        the quicker you can get a situation like this to die down, the better. The drafthouse is a fun, friendly and comfortable environment where the community comes together… Don’t go the free speech rah-rah-rah route, don’t threaten use of a 30k listserv, don’t threaten to make public the security videos. Not saying you have to appease every customer that is acting irrationally, but quickly diffusing the situation limits your liability in every regard.

        she has no justification to go after your business/booze permits and it’s unfortunate she even threatened that. having been a small business owner, i know that even the remote chance of something like that occurring can cause a lot of anxiety. hopefully you all get together and work this out. then share that. also, maybe you cut your losses, she doesn’t seem like the person you want to continue dealing w/…. but i wouldn’t go about sharing the details the whole fight or generating any additional controversy around “a fun, friendly and comfortable environment where the community comes together…”

        • Truthi

          Actually she does and you do too. Any citizen can go before the State ABC and request they not approve a liquor license. This would not be the first time that happened on Columbia Pike.

    • KArlington

      Carole took this public by airing her grievances on a listserve…

      • Truthi

        As should anyone who wants others to know good and bad businesses. When that business comes after that person personally as the draft house has threatened to do. That is pure vindictiveness. What Greg should have done was call her and offer a free movie, Note I did not say apologize.

  • K

    I always find it hilarious and a bit sad when people get so bent out of shape when it comes to these type of things. If she didn’t like the music then she could have just left, problem solved. To take this difference of opinion about music being played in a private establishment is ridiculous. Carole needs to get a life and find something better to waste her time on.

    • mehoo

      Looks to me like she was freaking out about the treatment she got, not just the music. Two different issues.

  • Will Rubin

    I argree with Carole,

    A few friends and I were happily having a bite there a couple weeks ago when we heard a Christian song! I told the bartender of all the mysery that Christianity had caused and that the song deeply offended our entire party. And just like Carole I was told, “Tough luck … you don’t have to be here you know.” So we left! (But we did leave a good tip, because it wasn’t the waitress’s fault after all). In any case, I’m going to vote to have them shut down too when voting on this comes around again. If I don’t like a particular type of music, why should I have to hear it!

    • Shut Down?

      Seriously, you would vote to have them shut down because of a Christian song? I suppose they shouldn’t play The Christmas Story, or Elf, or any other holiday movies that embrace the season. Your anti-Chrisitian beliefs seem a bit harsh, even for someone with an open mind like myself.

      • Kevin

        I think you should bring your sarcasm meter in for a tune up and recalibration

      • YoBimbo

        Dude.

        • Truthi

          You do not get to vote on whether a business gets a liquor license. You speak before the VA ABC and they make a decision based on your testimony and other things.

      • Truthi

        They should be shut down for playing ELF

    • Too bad you didn’t get a punch in the mouth for your intentionally offensive crack about Christianity.

      As people on Arlnow probably know I think kebabs are food for terrorist lovers, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to walk into their establishment and start dissing Allah.

      • Shut Down?

        Wait until Will finds out he shares the same last name with Rick who assisted in production of Jay-Z’s the Black Album…he’ll really lose his $H!T then.

      • RyanC

        Too bad you didn’t get a punch in the mouth for your intentionally offensive crack about Muslims.

        As people on Arlnow probably know I think Christian music is music for psychopath lovers, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to walk into their establishment and start dissing Yahweh.

        • Shut Down?

          One can only think what a Matisyahu may think of all of this?

          • mehoo

            I’m sure he would share it with you if you asked.

      • Bill

        > Too bad you didn’t get a punch in the mouth for your intentionally offensive crack about Christianity.

        Is that what Jesus would do?

        • I dunno. I’m Jewish.

          • Bill

            So was Jesus!

          • mehoo

            He’s got a point.

      • mehoo

        Too bad you don’t see sarcasm, especially when it supports your own views.

  • AD

    Such palpable hatred for rap music on MLK day? Define irony. I’d like to think Carole was only narrowly reacting to the explicit language and not to the fact it was rap music. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt but her own words counsel against this conclusion. I have to wonder if Carole would have reacted so colorfully had it been explicit rock or white pop music.

    • Maria

      Whoa, was MLK Jr. a rapper too?? I never knew! You learn something new every day.

      • Lou

        I’m sure he would have been a huge Tupac fan. WEST COAST!

        Also, what took you guys so long to get around to the racism angle?

        • RyanC

          Without typing for brevity and speed, can you explain why you believe it to merely be an angle?

          • Lou

            I think you jumped to an unsupported conclusion when you labeled her as a racist.

          • RyanC

            An immense hatred of a form of music often associated with a particular race equates to a completely unsupported hypothesis? A dislike to the point that, upon hearing the music whilst in a drinking establishment that plays, my god, MUSIC, you wave your arms around while screaming profanity, including racist profanity, demand your money back, and threaten to try and stop the business from operating. Oh yeah, people often throw fits like that purely because they hear a single song of a genre they dislike. Doesn’t at all appear to have racial motivation. Right?

          • Maria

            The owner responded to another post making it clear that her saying racist words was her repeating lyrics from the song and was taken out of context, and he said that he doesn’t think she’s a racist, so I think this debate should end.

            For the record, it seemed like her problem was not that it was a rap song but that it was very profane. In my own experience, I don’t dislike rap music, but I *really* can’t stand any type of music with a lot of profanity, so I would have been very uncomfortable hearing that song as well. I’m not defending her reaction because I certainly wouldn’t have thrown a fit, demanded my money back, or left, but if that type of song had kept playing, I very well may have at least asked the bartender if he could change it.

          • mehoo

            “An immense hatred of a form of music often associated with a particular race equates to a completely unsupported hypothesis?”

            OF COURSE!

            Jeez, it’s completely ridiculous. What’s next, you hate Asians because you don’t like Chinese food?

        • MLK was from Atlanta, so that would put him firmly in Biggie’s camp.

          • Lou

            He got around though.

    • Jim

      I am really surprised Carole knew who TUPAC was.

    • Truthi

      She was reacting to the filthy, racist, homophobic, misogynistic lyrics.

    • mehoo

      I can only speculate, but I imagine MLK would have detested the violence, misogyny, and profanity in rap lyrics.

  • Maria

    We’ve seen several examples on this site of business owners reacting in a very… let’s say, “childish”… way to negativity (American Flatbread, anyone?). However, Greg’s responses make me want to frequent the Drafthouse as often as I can. Wow. Really impressive.

    • FedUp

      Agreed! Let’s all support the Old Arlington Grill and the Drafthouse!

      • coco

        +10

        • Arlingtonian

          +500! I’m there!

    • YoBimbo

      Greg was superb. I feel the same way. ::checking the schedule::

      • Truthi

        Spare me he acted just like the Flat bread owner – childish.

        • Maria

          How so?

          • Truthi

            Some body said something bad about my business WAAAAAAAA. When in fact soemthing did happen bad in his business and he suspended the offender. Wants next Greg law suits???

          • Maria

            No, someone threatened to try to close his business down for a ridiculous reason. Big difference.

  • Please

    I certainly hope that Carol has calmed down and that the Arligton Grill continues to play whatever music they want to. I personally hate rap music, but there are good ways and bad ways to handle your response to something you do not like. This clearly was an example of what not to do. I hope that the owner shows Carol the videotape in private and that she publicly respond/apology if it is warranted. Perhaps the wine she enjoyed at Twisted Vines beforehand skewed her perspective of the actual events. BUt whatever. Grow up and move on.

    As to John [Redacted] – followers of the listserv have been subject to his inane diatribes for many years now. What I don’t understand is why people just don’t ignore him. Clearly the man lives for chances to spew on the listserv, responding to him only helps him justify his existence in his own twisted view of the world.

    • Joy

      Carole already has publicly apologized, on the list, and she and the folks at The Grill have resolved their differences. I’m very sorry she’s getting attacked here because the article didn’t mention that.

      • BiArlington

        I don’t feel sorry for her at all. It’s a shame that she thinks she represents this community. I would expect her to resign from the Columbia Pike Revitalization Organization because obviously attacking one of the few successful businesses on the Pike is definitely not going to improve it. I would recommend everyone contact CPRO and let them know that Carole doesn’t represent how you feel the Pike should be revitalized.

        • YoBimbo

          +5

      • Maria

        Just pointing out that the article does include that information. The article reprints the owners email where he says exactly that: “I found Carole to be sincere and a good person as I believe many of you do as well. I want to make it clear that I or the Drafthouse has no continuing ill feelings towards Carole.”

        People are attacking her on here because she attacked the business in what most people on here see as entirely the wrong way, regardless of the outcome between her and the owner. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but that’s what it is.

      • Jim

        Joy, sorry to disagree, but I do. Regardless of whether Carole apologized, had a come to Jesus, or whatever, deserves to be held to the sphere of public opinion.

        She attacked a business for extremely childish and selfish reasons without any merit whatsoever.

  • Southie

    Too bad Tipper Gore doesn’t live nearby anymore. She and Carole could be pals.

  • Just Me

    Carol calling Carol…. Come on here and tell us if you have chilled out or are you still a princess and everything should be YOUR way?

    • el fat kid

      wtf does this accomplish?

      • Arlingtonian

        I shudder at the thought of someone that prone to flying off the handle becoming a regular commenter on here

  • Rick

    It’s all about Carole. I’d love to follow her around at a Best Buy to see what cd covers she doesn’t like, action movie clips are played on TV’s, music over the PA… Ideally she would never return but I hope she does, and on a night when I’m there, so I can see it unfold again.

    “This is not the community I have worked hard to build over the past 3 years I have lived here.” So she hates expression through music, or black people, or both? Has she been working to gentrify the pike? Does she have a secret wardrobe she only wears at rallies?

  • You know, there are quite a few local news organizations who would pay a pretty penny for footage of a “civic leader” having a meltdown like that.

    Just saying….

  • G

    Unbelievable… Carol does sound like a bully. She’s lucky she got her money back. It sounds like her objections to the Drafthouse getting their license will fall on deaf ears… it has a lot of community support. I go here often… hopefully she wont be back.

    • Arlwhenever

      Carole a bully? Couldn’t possibly be. In addition to the community activities she noted Carole served as a delegate to the Democratic National Convention and led the organization of Hillary Clinton’s Arlington primary campaign in the last presidential election cycle. We all know that peaceful, moral people like her a civil and respectful, don’t we?

      • mehoo

        Wow, a lame political shot. It took long enough.

  • Neighbor

    NoVa/DC is full of this kind of bogus self-entitlement. Since when do you get comp’ed drinks because you don’t like the music a bar plays? I heard the Electric Slide is a store at Potomac Mills yesterday. Do I get a free shirt if I complain to the manager about how awful it is? ACDH should play whatever it wants and should allow minor gaffes to be forgotten. Not only should Carole apologize for her ridiculous behavior, the bartender should be taken off suspension.

    • G

      Yeah, one week suspension seems rough.

      • Truthi

        Per Greg, he was not supposed to be playing gangsta rap music that is hwy he is on “vacation”.

  • A.M

    Dear snobby me-me-me Arlingtonians,

    Businesses are not legally obligated to act in your personal interests or even serve you if they don’t want to. As a matter of fact, they can up and ask you to leave if they feel like it. If you don’t like the food, the music, or the attitudes of the employees, you reserve the right to never visit the establishment again.

    Get over yourself and go to freaking TGI Fridays if you don’t want to be exposed to anything that that challenges your precious, precious sensibilities.

    Sincerely,

    Everyone else

    • mehoo

      I’m offended by TGI Friday’s appetizers though.

  • BoredHouseWife

    Incidents like those make me wish that I was a smart-alec teen. I would have had so much fun with Carol.

  • BrownFlipFlops

    The licensing process is not Carol’s cudgel to use to beat people she doesn’t like. I hear a lot of, “do you know who I AM?” in her self-righteous ranting. I don’t think her volunteer work has any bearing on her worth as a citizen. Want my respect, Carol? Take your responsibilities seriously, do your best, and shut the hell up about it.

    This imaginary “right to not be offended” is the source of a lot of unfair nonsense. If she’s accomplished anything, it’s bringing the draft house back up on my radar screen. I’ll be over there for a beer soon.

    • JackFan

      +10

  • jenn

    i live just off the pike, just a quick walk from the cinema drafthouse, but i’ve never been to the grill side – this entire situation makes me want to go there more, though. good for them for standing up for common sense – which, as one of my colleagues loves to say, isn’t so common.

  • Skeptical

    Well, if we’re going to talk about making a big deal over a little thing, I note that this post, which is new today, has drawn over fifty comments and counting, most of them from people who don’t appear to personally know the individual who made the original complaint but seem to know all about what motivates her and what kind of a person she is, and can’t get enough of bashing her. I don’t see anyone except the business owner (who appears to have made his peace ith the complainer) claiming to have been a witness to the entire confrontation, but oh what a dogpile on one person — who, as only one commenter has pointed out, could simply have been having an extremely bad day or might have a personal “hot button” hit by songs like the ones that were playing.

    I’ve never been in this Grill, don’t go into that general type of place and don’t have any idea whose account of the original incident is more accurate. I just wonder how it helps resolve the situation to invite commentary from readers who are no more informed.

    If everyone feels so strongly that “Carol” should get over whatever happened in the actual incident, you are all doing an A-1 job of making sure that she continues to feel steamed about it for a long, long time… all because it’s fun to bash someone you haven’t ever even met over an account of a single incident you didn’t witness. Who needs to grow up here?

    • Maria

      It is interesting how people get all worked up about someone getting all worked up. Irony?

      • mehoo

        I’m offended that she was offended.

    • Pike1

      By taking it to the listserv Carol made it public business and the public can question her comments, motives and/or responses. Whether or not the piling on is fair/legitimate or not is a different issue. But Carol is responsible for putting it out there, so others can and should respond how they will.

      • Maria

        The point is that people are criticizing a person for her overreaction by completely overreacting themselves. They are, of course, allowed to do it, but that doesn’t make it any less silly.

        • BrownFlipFlops

          Someone is threatening, in writing, on a listserv, to use her political “connections” to bring the power of the government down upon yet another struggling local business. It’s not unreasonable for people to express negative opinions about that.

          • Maria

            There’s a difference between expressing a negative opinion and overreacting… you know, just like Carole had an overreaction when she could have just expressed a negative opinion. I’ll give you an example: calling Carole racist is an overreaction. Saying she should not use her political connections to threaten the livelihood of a business owner because it is wrong is a negative opinion. See?

        • Aaron

          Of course, none of us here are threatening to use our political connections to terminate her existence.

          Or yours for that matter. Do you know who I am? DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!? I AM FRIENDS WITH VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE WHO WILL SHUT YOU DOWN FOREVER.

          • Maria

            Ha, true… not yet anyway.

          • Cletus VanDamme

            ALSO, I WAS ONCE SIXTH-GRADE CLASS PRESIDENT, SO I AM SIGNING THIS AS IF THAT SCHOOL IS PRESENTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.

          • notahoo

            My personal favorite is “I have friends in law school!!!”

    • A.M

      I’m going to go out on a huge, huge limb here and say that there is a large difference between threatening to put someone out of business for unjust reasons in a thousand-word public screed, and calling that person an a-hole on the internet.

      “you are all doing an A-1 job of making sure that she continues to feel steamed about it for a long, long time”

      Oh boo freaking hoo.

  • Joe

    Wow, Carol really needs to get a grip on herself. Go Drafthouse!!!!!!!

  • Cletus VanDamme

    By far the worst quote from Carole’s email:
    “Please advise when license is up for renewal. I will object. STRONGLY. Have spent too many years volunteering in this community on civic association, Arlington Civic Federation, ACDC, ESL, foster parenting, building school partnerships while at DISA, working with CPRO, to have this kind of representation in our neighborhood.”

    She seems to think this gives her rights beyond those granted to any citizen, despite the fact that zero of those credentials have any bearing on the situation at hand.

    Carole: If you were right, you would be right regardless of your biography. In this case, however, you’re hilariously wrong regardless of your biography. In the future, argue on what happened, not who you are.

    • Truthi

      She like you has every right to do so.

  • Cletus VanDamme

    Also, Carole: You signed your email “Carole [REDACTED], AHCA”

    I reviewed the minutes of the Arlington Heights Civic Association, and no one with the first name Carole attended any of their four meetings in 2010. None of their current officers are named Carole, and they have not had a meeting between the time this incident occurred and now. The AHCA lists nothing about this incident on their website. By signing your email with an organization’s name, you are implying that you represent that organization.

    In light of that, the invocation of the AHCA seems to be a hollow gesture intended to intimidate a local business.

    You’re free to accuse the ACDH of being offensive. (I think your accusation is utterly without merit, but that is not material to your right to make it.) But it is entirely inappropriate to sign the name of an employer, organizations you belong to, or other third parties without their explicit consent. If the AHCA has an opinion on this, it should come from one of their elected officers, not a member.

    • I agree.

      FREDTERP

    • Truthi

      Cletus you ignorant….

      One of the rules of the 22204 list serve is that you must sign your name and neighborhood to each and every post.

      Truthi

      Everywhere

      • Truthiness

        and Truthi, your name is?

        • Maria

          Carole.

  • Office of Community Inquiry

    Is this Carole L.?

  • Office of Community Inquiry

    @Cletus VanDamme: if you google ‘Carole L***** AHCA” where L***** is her last name (which I have left out) you’ll find she was president in the /past/.

    • Jim

      I did the same thing. Why can’t her name be released? This is BS.

  • Tom M

    I miss the days of playing Tupac loudly over the juke box at Dremos.

    • dpan

      +1 Tom M

  • 22204 Pike Resident

    What I just emailed to Greg (address in atricle above):

    Sir:

    I read about this controversy with Carole. I live in Arlington just off Columbia Pike and the Draft House is one of my favorite places. I haven’t been to the little side bar yet, but I will go now for sure.

    Please don’t censor your musical and other entertainment offerings! And if the bartender really is on suspension please reinstate him soon. Let me know when you do and I’ll be happy to come have a drink!

    Respectfully,
    (my name)

    • Clarendome

      If you want to help more, pay attention to the county board items when various permits come up and express your support then. It is at those times that it is always the disgruntled show up (in person or with emails) and those that are happy rarely do. This idea of basing permits on the type of music played at an establishment has come up in Clarendon now and then. As was said earlier, it is a slippery slope.

  • Instigator

    The January 2011 AHCA Newsletter, Over The Fence, lists who I’m guessing is the same Carole L***** as one of their “Civic Federation Delegates.” What’s more interesting, her name is not on the 2010 member roster. Perhaps the cash she saved by failing to pay a proper gratuity that evening has been put towards her 2011 AHCA Membership?

  • The Pope of South Arlington

    “And in those 23 years I have never ever ever heard a single resident of this community use even one of the words in that music…”

    That’s because you don’t speak Spanish madame.

    Carole… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUGisre9xNU

    • Jim

      Well played.

  • Gossip Monger

    The adult man in me knows I shouldn’t be enjoying reading all this.

    But the conniving little middle school girl in me is relishing every minute of it!

  • Jim

    Why redact Carole’s last name? People who say/do stupid things deserve to stand by them. Come on, ARL NOW

    • FedUp

      I think by now everyone knows Carole’s last name.

      • Jim

        Fair point, and I don’t need her phone number or photo, but her name should have been posted IMHO.

        • MB

          Eh. Over the years, I’ve come to be a *big* fan of attaching your name to everything. But still only as a voluntary choice. Carole, despite her intimations to the contrary, isn’t really a public figure. I think ARLnow was correct in redacting in the original story. Maybe this standard will change in the next decade, but I think it was a reasonable approach right now.

    • mehoo

      What’s your last name, Jim? Post it here.

  • Just Me

    If you just look for yourselves you will not only find her last name but her e-mail address and phone number. I found a photo of her too.

  • Siena Parkian

    All overreaction from Carole aside, the manager either agrees it shouldn’t have played or he doesn’t. His email is a ridiculous slide from apologizing for the incident to berating Carole and defending his right to play the music. Which is it?

    • Jim

      “All overreaction from Carole aside?” Give me a break. Let’s ignore Carole’s nanny-state breakdown and focus on why the manager of a private establishment is now, in your view, telling two stories?

      His email was extremely consistent, and frankly, way too apologetic to Carole. Screw Carole. I wouldn’t want her as a customer. I wouldn’t want her as a neighbor.

      Carole is one of the reasons many people don’t think Northern Virginia counts as “the real Virginia.” I used to disagree with that logic…..

    • Maria

      Apologizing for someone being upset about an incident is not the same as apologizing for doing something wrong. Additionally, he made it clear that he does not approve of that type of music being played even though he does, indeed, have the “right” to play it if he wanted to. Those are two different things.

      And I actually have to disagree that he berated Carole. I think he was admirably calm and measured in his response, relaying the facts of the event as he saw them without judgment or derision as many people would do.

    • Truthi

      How correct you are. This is why the bar tender is on suspension.

  • CalrendonGUY

    Carole is an idiot

  • Jim

    I get Carole’s quick jump from offensive music to porn –> http://crm114.com/algore/tipper.html

    I guess she is stealing Tipper Gore’s moves.

  • Guest

    Carole’s just mad from Charlie banging on her office door asking about Pepe Silvia

    • Maria

      There is no Pepe Silvia!

  • Arlingtonian

    HAhaha, what a stupid thing to almost give yourself a heart attack over. I cannot believe the things people are willing to fly into a rage over, especially at – hello – a BAR. If you don’t like the music then don’t go there. Man, I would hate to see her come in there on stand-up comedy night.

    I think I will double my patronization of the Old Arlington Grill now!

    • Truthi

      the owner was quite clear that rap crap should not have been played at that bar. Not now, not never. The draft house was in the wrong.

      • Greg G (One of the Drafthouse Owners)

        What I said was that specific Tupac song was not approved. There are pleanty of great Rap songs out there. Your broad brush of the entire rap genre is incorrect.

        • Truthiness

          Don’t worry Greg, Truthi is a beeyatch. I bet her name is Carol.

  • brendan

    another new Arlington county decal… “Only God Can Judge Me” — http://flic.kr/p/9b4hWz

    • Just Me

      Too Funny, good work.

      • MB

        Seriously good stuff. In fact, I’m printing that off and using the center picture it when it comes time to replace the sticker. If Brendan doesn’t like it, he can sue me and ARLnow can report on it. Winners all around.

        • brendan

          Ha. Thank you, but not one for lawsuits. Feel free to use however you want, tho knowing the county’s sense of humor (or lack thereof), you might be in some trouble with them if you actually put this on your car.

          • MB

            As I’m happy to attest far and wide, Frank O’Leary personally assured me, in no uncertain terms, that the stickers remained valid so long as the number itself was unaltered. This came about when I called him and said I didn’t intend to display any quote by a traitor (Robert E. Lee) on my car, and we had a conversation about it. Since then, I’ve substituted the pictures on my tax decal.

            Now, I’m not your lawyer and I’m not providing anyone legal advice. In fact, I’m just some random dude on the internet. Could be a dog. Who knows? But O’Leary’s statement was enough for me, and I’ve successfully relied upon it for a while now.

    • brendan

      FTR, not taking a side in this. A whole lot of hoopla that both sides should have attempted to settle in private. But since it has erupted into some heated online amusement, i thought i’d have some fun with it. Hopefully both sides, as well as everyone else, can laugh and move on. Thank you.

  • MB

    Want to support Arlington Cinema & Drafthouse? go patronize them. Great place for cult classic movies, niche sport documentaries, and apparently even stand up, these days.

    And take a lesson from Carole: if you go overboard in print, it’ll probably come back to you.

    • Just Me

      I bet she is not feeling so big and important right now.

    • Bringmetheyuppies

      This is the true lesson here. Don’t rant on a public forum. I have been to the drafthouse bar. It’s a dump, always empty when I have been there. Nice enough bar tenders though. And the greater issue is that many of us on the pike don’t want rap bars on the pike. Do we think the can/should exist yes. Do we think they improve property values, no. I can’t imagine the response if one opened in Clarendon. We want nice places because there are already sooo many bad places around.

      • Maria

        What exactly is a “rap bar”? Plenty of bars in Clarendon play rap music, though I’m not sure they can be qualified as rap bars…

        Also, I actually don’t think that’s the greater issue here. I think the greater issue is that you don’t use one personally upsetting experience as a reason to threaten to shut down a bar.

  • BrownFlipFlops

    Went over this evening, and had a couple of beers. The staff was delightful.

    They played some Justin Bieber, though, so I’m afraid I’m going to have to have a tantrum, and take my grievances to the Board. I mean, Tupac is one thing, but…

    • Maria

      F that. Shut ’em down!

    • mehoo

      How did you know you were hearing Justin Beiber though? You’re familiar with his body of work? If you don’t have teenage girls, you’re nailed.

      • BrownFlipFlops

        I’m safe, mehoo. They were playing one of those cable channels that gives you visuals and little blurbs about the music as it plays. Whew!

  • KalashniKEV

    This is exactly why we don’t negotiate with terrorists.

  • John Andre

    The issue I have with a lot of rap music–it’s hardly music at all! Same with some “metal” I heard recently on Music Choice–a bunch of jangly clangy noise with screaming and little or no rhythm. Add to that some of the obscene lyrics in a few rap songs and you’ve got the picture. I’ll take swing, country, jazz, rock ‘n roll, rockabilly, classical, classic rock, reggae, calypso/soca, blues or R&B over rap or metal anytime.

    As for swing dancing, Debra Sternberg of Gottaswing just e-mailed me about how you can get a crowd of 600 [capacity] into the Spanish Ballroom at Glen Echo on Saturday night–more than at any hip-hop club in the District.

    I’d recommend a swing dance venue along Columbia Pike or in Shirlington. We generally get a good crowd on Tuesday evening at the Clarendon Ballroom even when the weather is bad such as last Tuesday.

    • Arlingtonian

      For the most part I agree with you about rap as far as most of the mainstream stuff you hear on the radio today. That’s why I mostly prefer either old school rap or some lesser-known artists like Blueprint, Felt, or Atmosphere. Try them out sometime. Extremely talented with lyrics that actually say something.

      • Arlingtonian

        and as far as a swing dance club on the pike goes … yes please!

    • ESlater

      You say rap isn’t music, but it’s been the most popular musical genre (based upon dollars spent on music sales) in the United States for the last 25 years.

      It’s OK for you to be out of the mainstream, but one should recognize when they’re in a minority rather than a majority.

      • mehoo

        Popularity is often inversely proportional to quality.

        • Maria

          And quality is subjective. So this conversation goes nowhere.

  • Rosslyner

    If you pause at 33 seconds into this rap video, ACDH is visible at the top left of the screen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pR0zjJqig0. Maybe Born I Music could do a show at ACHD?

  • GeorgeOrwell

    i never knew that giving money to ACDC (Arlington Democrats) would entitle me to be a drunk high maintenance customer. Kewl.

  • Shut Down?

    I think I’m going to thump California Love all week in my automobile as I drive through Arlington.

  • Black Flag

    If you don’t like the music playing inside the grill, go home! It’s simple! The attitudes of some people. Ok, Carole please send a listen of music, you would like to hear in Arlington! We will make sure, you will not have anymore problems haha

  • bennynojets

    I saw stand-up at the ACDH on Friday. F-bombs were a plenty as was raunchy material. It was great. Luckily, Carole was not there to protest.

  • Black Flag

    Out on bail fresh outta jail, California dreamin
    Soon as I stepped on the scene, I’m hearin hoochies screamin
    Fiendin for money and alcohol
    the life of a west side playa where cowards die and its all ball
    Only in Cali where we riot not rally to live and die
    In L.A. we wearin Chucks not Ballies (that’s right)
    Dressed in Locs and khaki suits and ride is what we do
    Flossin but have caution we collide with other crews
    Famous cause we program worldwide
    Let’em recognize from Long Beach to Rosecrans
    Bumpin and grindin like a slow jam, it’s west side
    So you know the row won’t bow down to no man
    Say what you say
    But give me that bomb beat from Dre
    Let me serenade the streets of L.A.
    From Oakland to Sacktown
    The Bay Area and back down
    Cali is where they put they mack down
    Give me love!

  • Crazy people

    All this over a song that was accidentally played, she needs to get a life and relax a little bit. She acts like she has never heard the F-bomb before.

  • My Hood

    Carol needs to get laid.

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  • Jason S

    The Onion Headline for this would read: “Area Catlady Causes Ruckus”

  • South Walter Reed

    Please feel free to stay at home and listen to the Osmonds. The rest of us will continue to support the Drafthouse.

  • Thanks for the Laugh, Arlington

    Unfortunately, Arlington does not have a monopoly on command/control busybodies… so I feel your pain dealing with community activists, historical preservationists, and other bored shrews.

    • mehoo

      Don’t lump those all together.

  • SoCo Resident

    A BEER SUMMIT! What about having one?

    • Arlwhenever

      The last thing Carole needs is another beer.

    • mehoo

      Beer? Count me in.

  • Jorge

    ICE deports undocumented people on a daily basis. The US Gov should establish an agency that deports self-righteous, fascist yuppies like Carole back to the backward town they came from within the US.
    Carole, must have some serious social contacts that allow her to make such threats against a place that actually does good work form the community versus that fake Irish pub across the street.
    I like the drafthouse, don’t like the food there, prefer the drinks…that doesn’t stop me from making a pit stop from time to time. I was disappointed they only showed Machete for a week, that doesn’t stop me from wanting to take away their licquor license.

    • Jason S

      Well, if that wasn’t a typical Arlington response, then I don’t know what is. What if, and this might sound crazy, there are “self-righteous fascists” actually *from* Arlington.

      • Chief Powhatan

        I agree – send all your asses back, you’ve completely screwed up my country.

  • SA Resident

    Really ARL NOW? This is the best you can do for news – cut and paste from a listserv you don’t belong to? Can’t wait for the endless articles touching every Arlingtonian’s heart: traffic and towing.

  • Erik

    Carol is clearly a Biggie fan.

  • Lisa

    I’m not African-American, but when I reached the end of the original item, I could not help but see Carole’s complaints as code for “I want the new Pike to be really nice, which means we don’t want any of the kind of black people who would listen to rap music, and playing rap music in a venue on the Pike will encourage such undesirables and is to be avoided at all cost.”

    • mehoo

      You can see code words all you want, but it’s completely unfair to Carole to read something into her words she didn’t say.

  • zappado

    Why all this fuss over a dump that makes the zoo bar look like the Taj Mahal?

    I can understand why the owner wants to protect his investment, but after bringing my kids to a showing at the cinema a few years back, I probably wouldn’t bother wandering back again.

    Memo to owner: air the place out every other year or so — it smells like an ash tray that’s been festering inside Bukowski’s bung hole for a decade or three.

    • Westover

      Smoking has been banned in there for a few years now. I know what you mean by the smoke being bad a few years ago, but go give it another try.

  • Corinne M.

    For what it’s worth: the song playing that night was Tupac – How Do U Want It.
    In my frank opinion this particular track really isn’t even that vulgar. Other than some descriptive sexuality and “nigga” used a couple times in synonymous context with “dude,” I wouldn’t rate this song as any more potentially offensive than, say, Katy Perry’s “Teenage Dream.” Just sayin…

    I’m a waitress inside the theater which is how I got the inside scoop on specifically what song is in question here.

    • Truthi

      Spare me the minimizing Connie. I heard Katy Perry on the radio several times never heard any of that Tupac stuff and NEVER heard anything with the N word in it either

      • Maria

        Considering Tupac’s been dead for 14 years, they’re not exactly playing his music on the radio on a daily basis. However, it was on the radio all the time in the early/mid-90s. Just an FYI.

      • Truthiness

        Truthi – you really are the judgement queen, arn’t you? No one is going to spare you anything. Lighten up.

    • mehoo

      Funny, as a white guy, I have a feeling that if I uttered “nigga” I would find that a great many Tupac fans would suddenly inform me strenuously that it was offensive to them.

  • Full Frontal Honesty

    Carol is a tool. Also, I would vote for full frontal nude dancing. Let’s face it folks, adults should be treated like adults. Now, if only Carol would grow up.

    • Truthi

      So you want a strip joint on Columbia Pike? Told you this Tupac stuff would lead us over the abyss.

      • Truthiness

        Truthi – don’t discriminate. Full frontal nudity may be appalling to you, but some of us adults don’t like to judge others. Give nudity a chance and put it in Rosslyn, where they are used to it.

  • DinaCurtis

    Carol, if everything offends you then stay at home! No one will miss you…REALLY!

  • YoBimbo

    This whole thing totally reminded me of the Murky Coffee Incident. YOU WILL BOW TO MY SPECIFIC WANTS IN SPITE OF YOUR POLICY!! NO, I WILL *NOT* GO SOMEPLACE ELSE!

    http://andiamnotlying.com/2008/murky-coffee-arlington-hold-that-espresso-between-your-knees/

    • YoBimbo

      Okay, it’s not exactly like that, but it’s that same sense of entitlement.

    • mehoo

      At first I thought you were mocking the owner of Murky.

      I think both the owner and the customer were pigheads.

      I think in the Carole case, she was reacting to the rude and dismissive comment allegedly made by the bartender at first – “next up, more of the same.”

      Everyone just be nice and not jerks.

  • Mittendorf

    Hey folks, why don’t you all meet at a bar and have your discussion there? I think this thread will warrant calling in PETA – a dead horse has been beaten senseless and to a pulp. Interesting to read but it’s starting to sound like a broken record.

  • G

    Has anyone else read through these comments and thought Truthi is definitely Carole? Why not just be public about it. You already put yourself out there on the listserv. Stand behind your ridiculous views, or don’t put them out there.

    P.S to clarify, I’m different than another “G” on this thread – it’s just the abbreviation I’ve always used on ArlNow. I made a couple sub-comments above, but not the first-level ones above.

  • Ballstonian

    Amazing that Gangsta rap is that offensive. I do remember using gangsta rap one time after a National’s game to clear a way to the bar at the Poor House in Capitol Hill. Since DC/NOVA for the most part is filled with yuppie, highly educated people (including myself), I decided the best way to clear out that bar was use the juke box machine on the wall and pay $10 to play The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory hits. Great album by the way.

    Wow, within about 3 minutes after ‘Hail Mary’ not only could I reach the bar, but also got a booth.

    Hate to say it Carole, but you can always patron some other venue that does not play rap. And on the same subject, what’s so offensive about gangsta rap? I grew up in the ‘dirty’ south and yeah the lyrics are awful in what they say, but man, the beats, especially on a good sound system, are awesome.

    I myself have yet to visit the Arlington Draft House, but I am definitely going to go now to support the management and staff there.

    Now if we could only clean up the Ballston Mall…want to come fight that fight for me Carole and make it more like Tysons Corner? (that’ll never happen)

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